Life After Indie (or) What's the Next Step?

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mark4man

mark4man

MoonMix Studios
OK...

Here's our story:

Four, 50 something Jazz Rock hotshots (two of which come out of retirement), form a studio band; & record, master, produce & release a 9 song CD. The songwriting, musicianship, vocals, etc. are all top-flite original. The album graphics look professional; & the folded insert booklet is laid out very nicely. We devise a cool sounding record company name w/ a cool looking cartoon logo, which is also printed professionally onto the CD surface. We replicate 1000 copies...they sound & look great.

So then...we begin to solicit radio stations around the good ol' USA. We send out professionally worded e-mail inquiries to 400 (so far) radio stations that fit our genre (Jazz Rock.) Of those, about 15% respond favorably; & we send them CD's, along w/ a state-of-the-art One-Sheet.

To date...we have sold 1 CD...which means the radio stations are not spinning our tracks. We send out follow-ups; & get no response. We've also solicited about 40 magazines & e-zines, along w/ follow-ups...& no one wants to give us a review. We have joined SonicBids & availed ourselves of their resources...spent a bunch of money...& have had no doors open. We have our own (web) site, a myspace site; & an indie911 site.

So my question is:

If we now abandon the indie world...& approach the major record companies...either individually or through networks like Taxi, etc...& happen to get picked up by a label...what do they do for their artists?

How do they seemingly accomplish having the upper hand w/ radio stations...are they able to twist the arms of DJs for airplay, or more realistically get instant consideration on airplay requests due to their status as biggies?

How about brick-& mortar sales as pushed by the majors...how does that work?

And of course the 'bottom line' question is...how much does a band or artist forfeit when they sign w/ a major? One of the reasons we wanted to push the indie approach was due to the fact that you hear rumors of majors getting 90% of all sales proceeds.

Not sure where we should turn at this point. We have a great product, but it seems like either nobody cares, or that there really are invisible road blocks to success.

Anybody have any thoughts on this? [No tears or regrets, here...I'm not bitchin; & so far it's at least been fun. I'm just wondering where to turn next, that's all.]

Thanks,

mw4man
Project One
 
Recently i have recorded an album that has created alot of doubts for me in terms of how to get to the next level or even what i should be doing with it. Everyone that has heard it has enjoyed it. I think that its about getting into the public conciousness with your songs/records. Creating a buzz about yourselves that will drive record sales. Keep sending it to Radio stations, also send it over seas and send it to specific targeted stations or DJ's that specialise or are known for a love of your genre. If you dont have a manager, get one. Most record companies wont talk to artist directly. Myspace and soundclick are a great way to boost sales. I have sold a few records through soundclick.
 
Gummblefish has some very good points. The European market seems to be much more accepting of Indie musicians and a lot of American acts sell there that make NO impact here...go figure. My opinion is, get some sort of management or at least a promotion company (but be wary). If you wish to keep promoting on your own (which you seem to not be afraid of), I'd check into getting involved with a distributor...whether indie or not. They're the ones that will get you into the brick and mortar stores. Unfortunately, it'll still be up to you to do all the promotion. Get yourself onto any and every online avenue available...Soundclick, Myspace, CDbaby, etc. Make sure you have a website that's easily found through search engines. I don't know if major label is the way to go...that's a personal decision. Taxi is not a network service, it's a songwriting critique service. They will do nothing for you as far as getting your music out there, but if you only want them to give you a critique of a song in the chance that it'll bowl them over, it's your call if you think that's worth $400. I'm not saying "don't do it", I'm saying "do more homework before spending money on something fruitless".

Spend some money on books. There's quite a few available to help you. At least go to a Borders and catch up on some reading while having coffee. ;) You've chosen a tough road, but there's still many avenues to explore and you'll only win in the end. Everything you do will be a learning experience and if it succeeds...all the better. Good luck!
 
mark4man said:
OK...
If we now abandon the indie world...& approach the major record companies...either individually or through networks like Taxi, etc...& happen to get picked up by a label...what do they do for their artists?]
mw4man
Project One
Click to expand...

If they dont have a big following, nothing. Only thing that is good is advances thats if you get one...

mark4man said:
OK...
How do they seemingly accomplish having the upper hand w/ radio stations...are they able to twist the arms of DJs for airplay, or more realistically get instant consideration on airplay requests due to their status as biggies?]
mw4man
Project One
Click to expand...

They pay them plain and simple. If you havent noticed radio is the same recycled bands..


mark4man said:
OK...
How about brick-& mortar sales as pushed by the majors...how does that work?.]
mw4man
Project One
Click to expand...

Ok if people know who you are. Strawberrys, sam goody, have a program I think it cost 30 bucks and they put it in there store.

mark4man said:
OK...
And of course the 'bottom line' question is...how much does a band or artist forfeit when they sign w/ a major? One of the reasons we wanted to push the indie approach was due to the fact that you hear rumors of majors getting 90% of all sales proceeds..]
mw4man
Project One
Click to expand...

Almost everything, They have to recoup several million before they give a dime.

mark4man said:
OK...
Not sure where we should turn at this point. We have a great product, but it seems like either nobody cares, or that there really are invisible road blocks to success..]
mw4man
Project One
Click to expand...

Were all in this situation, Only thing you can do is promote and peform everywhere you can.

mark4man said:
OK...
Anybody have any thoughts on this? [No tears or regrets, here...I'm not bitchin; & so far it's at least been fun. I'm just wondering where to turn next, that's all.]
mw4man
Project One
Click to expand...

This is the music biz, If you get with a label and have a big enough buzz, They will spend several millon, making sure you get some radio play, good locations in stores etc...
Look at the macarana people they were small time musicians for 40 years, a dj remixed there song and they scored a number one hit... And disapeared just as fast as they came...
 
"Program director on the radio / won't play my record 'til the caller tells him so"

--O.A.R.'s musical lament at your situation

I have no experience to speak of, but it seems logical, to me at least, that a station won't play tracks unless they know their listeners want to hear them (with the exception of niche stations and programs geared toward exposing indies or up and comers). Ask your fan base to request songs at radio station that have your CD? Assemble a street team?

Best of luck
 
Wow...

Great responses, everybody...thanks very much! This was all very good advice, from everyone; & it's greatly appreciated (&...it will all be heeded.)

I talked to the other band members this weekend about this...& they all want to stay on the indie train. One of the guys goes all the way back w/ me, to an original band we put together in southern California in the mid-seventies. We had a bad experience w/ a record company back then...& he's had one or two since. So the prevailing attitude is...keep trying.

[Also...good idea about Sam Goody...I'll check that out.]

Thanks again,

mw4man
Project One
 
It does make sense to me that a radio station will only play music if it is either sold to them to be pushed, or if it is requested... otherwise there is no business drive to put it out there.

It sucks, but its a business like any other. I doubt a station would lose listeners because every once in a great while they played a song from an unknown group that wasn't paying the station to play said music. However, once they open the flood gates, everyone and their brother will start sending in tapes, CDs, 8-tracks, wax cylinders, etc etc... so where do you draw the line?

I think the same is the case with the record labels and the industry in general... perhaps one reason why they don't "accept tapes" anymore is because of how much content there is nowadays. 40 years ago, there weren't tons of home studios being erected, demos being assembled and then shipped off to be listened to for potential marketability. Could they conceivably listen to every demo sent their way now? I doubt it... I don't know the figures but I would guess they get a shitload of music in their mail even now that they say they don't accept sent-in material.

As much as they are a corporate money making machine like any other, I think it is simply unfeasible to expect even a corporation to weed through the countless thousands of musicians and groups that want to be heard... sure, there were probably just as many wanting to be heard way back when you COULD get a foot in the door if you had real talent, but it has become too easy for those voices to be heard... and thus the market is flooded with 99% crap that most people don't want to hear.

I'd say, keep playing live, sell yourselves, and hope for the best... it sucks, and it isn't easy, but I don't see any mechanical set of steps to becoming a popular group other than gaining a fan base and selling to them, hoping they will then help spread you out as well... good luck :)
 
you need fans. if you have a large audience/following, radio stations will play you and record labels will pay you.

tour. that's the most effective way of getting your name out there.
 
Are you guys playing live? Do you pack bars/clubs with fans 3-4 nights a week? Is there a market for the kind of music you're making?

No offense, as I haven't heard your stuff, but have you considered the fact that you might actually suck?
 
dirtyp said:
mark4man said:
OK...
How do they seemingly accomplish having the upper hand w/ radio stations...are they able to twist the arms of DJs for airplay, or more realistically get instant consideration on airplay requests due to their status as biggies?
Click to expand...


They pay them plain and simple. If you havent noticed radio is the same recycled bands..
Click to expand...

Isn't that illegal? I seem to recall that Limp Bizkit or someone got in trouble for trying to pay radio stations to play their music.

However, the general idea is correct. The radio stations are in bed with the record companies. Clear Channel and one or two other companies own about 80% of the radio stations in the U.S., and there are about 5 record companies that own the vast majority of the market share on popular music. Money may not directly change hands, but the two definitely boost each other.
 
I was wondering the same thing about the legality of paying off radio stations to play your music myself... regardless of whether you are a group or a corporation... but I guess if you own the radio station, you aren't paying anyone, you are just playing what you want on your own radio station :)

As for the group sucking, that may be the case. Another possibility might be a lack of interest in that genre of music, at least in terms of radio play and mass-marketability... a friend of mine writes magnificent classical compositions, and should probably be regarded a little higher than someone like Britney Spears... or Limp Bizkit.

Sure, there is a niche for just about anything... there's probably someone out there who will listen to pots and pans being banged together with a chorus of screaming, flame-engulfed puppies tracked over them, but I'd hope there's only one or two (puppies shouldn't be engulfed in flames, for the record). Remove the puppies and maybe the audience grows larger. Remove the pots and pans and stick a half-naked teen on the cover and it will sell millions.

Perhaps you guys should get a hot 18-year old to play something in the group, but mostly just remove clothing as the show goes on.
 
OK, I think I found your myspace: http://www.myspace.com/projectonejams

First off, you need a different name. I did an artist search for "Project One" and there were 3 pages of bands/artists using that name (you're on page 2). I did a google search, too, and you guys aren't even on the map. i.e. - you have no "net visibility." You want your myspace to come up first in a search, your website/cdbaby pages to pop up first in google, etc. If you want to use the web to market your music, you need to be findable on the web.

As for the music, it sounds ok, but it's a bit to noodly/wanky for my taste. That, and the fact that you're all older means that you won't have much appeal to younger listeners (although the girl helps). You don't have really catchy sing-along tunes that are gonna pack bars, either. The fact that you only have 11 myspace friends isn't going to impress any potential record labels (yeah, I know it's overrated, but it gets back to that whole fan-following thing).

If you have any local independant music stores, ask them to stock your CD. Many/most will have a "local artists" section. Consider iTunes or the Snocap option on myspace, too. Maybe $13 for a CD is too much, but $0.99 for a single song might be do-able.

I still say you need to play live, though. I don't see any tour dates on your myspace, which seems to imply that you don't play live much. It's hard to get fans if they can't find you.
 
Word of warning - if you did hook up with a major label, the first thing they'd do is throw your CD in the trash and saddle you with a producer that would mold your music to sound like whatever he/she thinks is marketable, and you wouldn't recognize it.
 
jazz rock meets Christina Aguilera with a hint of Backstreet Boys and JayZ all rolled into one. I like it. Let's go there... see what magic happens.
 
Alright, first-off we'll need to see your myspace site to know if you're utilizing it properly. If it is indeed the site pointed out a couple posts ago, you guys are doing absolutely nothing to utilize the site. 11 friends? What you need to do is find similar bands with followings & bring up their friends lists. Then, one by one, send friend requests to every single person on their lists. Then, make sure your myspace is laid out professionally, or at least semi-respectably. For your bio, tell everybody what kind of music you play and your mission/goals/why you're playing music. Put your CD cover really huge on your site with a link to an online store and a nice cheap price. Once you have 5,000+ friends, give me a call and tell me you haven't sold any CD's.

(as an example, check out my band's site: http://www.myspace.com/everestband . I know we're a completely different genre, but the goals and the methods are the same!)
 
it is illegal to pay stations, but theres loopholes..

For one if you give a check to a independent agent who doesnt work for the station, lets call him a promoter. Then he cashes it and gives cash to the musical director.

You arent liable because you didnt give money to the station and you didnt pay someone to do it, you paid for exposure, and the promoter gets off because theres no proof..

There was just a big article about payola and every major station in NY came up in the investigation. The feds made them pay a $12 million fine and promise to give indies 3500 hours of radio play...
 
dirtyp said:
it is illegal to pay stations, but theres loopholes..

For one if you give a check to a independent agent who doesnt work for the station, lets call him a promoter. Then he cashes it and gives cash to the musical director.

You arent liable because you didnt give money to the station and you didnt pay someone to do it, you paid for exposure, and the promoter gets off because theres no proof..

There was just a big article about payola and every major station in NY came up in the investigation. The feds made them pay a $12 million fine and promise to give indies 3500 hours of radio play...
Click to expand...


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/biz/4604976.html
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Isn't that illegal? I seem to recall that Limp Bizkit or someone got in trouble for trying to pay radio stations to play their music.

However, the general idea is correct. The radio stations are in bed with the record companies. Clear Channel and one or two other companies own about 80% of the radio stations in the U.S., and there are about 5 record companies that own the vast majority of the market share on popular music. Money may not directly change hands, but the two definitely boost each other.
Click to expand...

Oh, "payola" still happens, I believe. It's just much more covert these days.
 
grn said:
you need fans. if you have a large audience/following, radio stations will play you and record labels will pay you.

tour. that's the most effective way of getting your name out there.
Click to expand...
I completely agree.
 
You need to be playing shows EVERY weekend and promoting them. Give out demo cds to people who you think will enjoy your music (yes. generalize).

Go to places where people will like your music and talk to them about it.
 
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