Lexan, Plexiglass, or just plain ol' Glass

G

Goldcan

New member
I've read a couple places to not substitute anything for glass when making a window for either a vocal booth or between mixing room and live area, but I haven't seen any reasons on why I shouldn't. Just the "Don't use anything but safety/real glass" kinda thing.

And another thing, whether I go with Lexan ( www.lexan.com ) or real glass, and double it up with an airspace between the two peices, I understand the reason for the airspace, but if I can create a vacuum between the two peices instead, does that offer anything more than just having the airspace?

Yes I know sound essentially doesn't travel in a vacuum but is a 1-3" gap going to make that much of a difference?
 
I understand the reason for the airspace, but if I can create a vacuum between the two peices instead, does that offer anything more than just having the airspace?
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It would be ALMOST impossible to create a total vacume between two panes of glass. At least in a studio. I believe even 3/8 or 1/2" would break before you got there.
But here is the reality. Weak link syndrome. Whats the point of having a window with a Transmisson Loss MUCH greater than your walls? Or the doors. Or the ceiling. Or the floor.
fitZ
 
Innovations said:
If the answer was MASS then it was the right one.
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Yup, that would have been the one. 1.20 for 1/4 Lexan where the same thickness glass is 2.5 or something close to that I believe. I'll just spend the money on some thicker glass.

Thanks guys.

And Rick, yeah I found some info on inevitably breaking the glass trying to get a total vacuum.

Anyone know about the sound transmissions of different gasses? If I were to fill the space with something other than "breathing air" would it make a difference?
 
Am i on crack, or is it recommended to use two different thicknesses of glass when building a double layer window in a studio?
 
Ptownkid said:
Am i on crack, or is it recommended to use two different thicknesses of glass when building a double layer window in a studio?
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Nope - you aren't on crack - or at least not because of that statement.

It's the truth - begin with a piece of glass at least equalt to the mass on one wall sze - and then increase the glass thickness for the other side by one glass member.

Rod
 
Goldcan said:
Anyone know about the sound transmissions of different gasses? If I were to fill the space with something other than "breathing air" would it make a difference?
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More dense materials (including more dense air) have sound move faster in them. Thus a higher density gas inside would resonate at higher frequencies. It would not seem worth the effort.

...Suddenly has really weird idea...make the window an aquarium!
 
Innovations said:
More dense materials (including more dense air) have sound move faster in them. Thus a higher density gas inside would resonate at higher frequencies. It would not seem worth the effort.

...Suddenly has really weird idea...make the window an aquarium!
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I was under the impression that water was a good transmitter of sound waves.
 
Goldcan said:
I was under the impression that water was a good transmitter of sound waves.
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Water is a good transmitter of sound - and would couple the 2 panels of glass together.

Listen - you're thinking about this too hard - in order to build a unit like you picture - 1st you would have to hire someone tp build you an extruded aluminum frame which was acoustically isolated side to side - but still could maintain a prefect seal. Then you would have to figure out a way to make this a part of an entire window assembly.

It isn't worth the time you waste asking the question - especially since you will more than equal the wall assembly by simply begining with equal mass - and thus the wall itself becomes the weak point.

So even if you could double the value of the window by investing 10 grand into something custom - you would not see a return on that money in your room.

Rod
 
Rod Gervais said:
Water is a good transmitter of sound - and would couple the 2 panels of glass together.

Listen - you're thinking about this too hard - in order to build a unit like you picture - 1st you would have to hire someone tp build you an extruded aluminum frame which was acoustically isolated side to side - but still could maintain a prefect seal. Then you would have to figure out a way to make this a part of an entire window assembly.

It isn't worth the time you waste asking the question - especially since you will more than equal the wall assembly by simply begining with equal mass - and thus the wall itself becomes the weak point.

So even if you could double the value of the window by investing 10 grand into something custom - you would not see a return on that money in your room.

Rod
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Thanks for all the time you spent helping me out. I wasn't thinking too hard about it just asking a question and I personally believe that you can never waste time asking questions, especially when it comes to figuring out why and how things work.

And if I were to build the Aluminum frame what sizes are you looking at? My life is metal, man. Hiring someone to build it is not an issue since it's what I do for a living.

Where you thinking something like 2x4 extruded 1/8 inch wall tubing?
 
Goldcan said:
And if I were to build the Aluminum frame what sizes are you looking at? My life is metal, man. Hiring someone to build it is not an issue since it's what I do for a living.

Where you thinking something like 2x4 extruded 1/8 inch wall tubing?
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Nope - I wasn't thinking at all about how I could go about doing this - because there isn't any way it makes sense - as I said - if you did all of this - the wall becomes your weak point - and you don't gain anything. But you aren't just going to have someone build this - it takes an extruding machine capable of creating and joining dis-similar materials (the alum. extrusion - the neoprene (or EPDM) isolation member - and then it will also take a totally new manner in which to take a frame assembly and turn that into a sealed window assembly - to maintain the physical seperation of the 2 pieces of glazing. No one has done this before - so you really have your work cut out for you.

I cannot imagine this making sense for a one time one build window assembly.

If you do it the way it's been done historically - everything equals out and works - without trying to figure out a design that (when all is said and done) might or MIGHT NOT work from an isolation point of view.

The only way you would know if it worked would be to have it tested after you designed and built it.

Now, if you're interested in collaborating to try and design a new isolated window product for studio use - perhaps in 10 or 12 years when things lighten up a bit on me - I might be interested in laying back and thinking this through......... but right now I am just way too busy.

Sincerely,

Rod
 
Rod Gervais said:
Nope - I wasn't thinking at all about how I could go about doing this - because there isn't any way it makes sense - as I said - if you did all of this - the wall becomes your weak point - and you don't gain anything. But you aren't just going to have someone build this - it takes an extruding machine capable of creating and joining dis-similar materials (the alum. extrusion - the neoprene (or EPDM) isolation member - and then it will also take a totally new manner in which to take a frame assembly and turn that into a sealed window assembly - to maintain the physical seperation of the 2 pieces of glazing. No one has done this before - so you really have your work cut out for you.

I cannot imagine this making sense for a one time one build window assembly.

If you do it the way it's been done historically - everything equals out and works - without trying to figure out a design that (when all is said and done) might or MIGHT NOT work from an isolation point of view.

The only way you would know if it worked would be to have it tested after you designed and built it.

Now, if you're interested in collaborating to try and design a new isolated window product for studio use - perhaps in 10 or 12 years when things lighten up a bit on me - I might be interested in laying back and thinking this through......... but right now I am just way too busy.

Sincerely,

Rod
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Yeah I hadn't really planned on re-invinting the wheel when it comes to this, just asking some questions which you answered better than I could have hoped. Thanks.
 
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