Levels to tape

M

man-bot

New member
Just curious what levels people track to on tape?

I usually try to go hot on the MS-16 but have read some articles where engineers hit at different levels to maintain transients and avoid squishing instruments too much. I've heard a lot of good recordings on here - interested to see what levels you to try to hit with different instruments.

Mike

Edit - I'm using Quantegy 406 so the noise floor isn't as low as all the +9 guys out there… may have to consider the mod and switch tape so I don't feel the need to minimize noise as much as possible by hammering levels.
 
If you are using tape for an effect, who cares how hard you hit it? Adjust to taste.
If you are using it as a recording instrument then a little more attention to levels is called for.
I use 499 exclusively. Drums peaking at about -6 on the meters, other non-percussion closer to zero. A few peaks getting by at +3 on the meters doesnt hurt.
 
man-bot said:
Edit - I'm using Quantegy 406 so the noise floor isn't as low as all the +9 guys out there… may have to consider the mod and switch tape so I don't feel the need to minimize noise as much as possible by hammering levels.
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I heard from a very knowledgeable source that most of the classic albums were done on 406 before the other formuations came out.

If true, that means some of the greatest rock records ever, were done on 406. I ain't complaining.

I use it and like it. I shoot for zero db levels and if it goes over, no big deal. I came from the "hit the tape hot" school of thought and have always liked the results.
 
Perhaps also worth mentioning, that if you're using dbx, hitting the tape will likely result in no saturation effects what so ever but might just produce some decoding ugliness. So be sure to turn the NR off on the channels you wish to over drive and stagger your tracks so you don't get any adjacent channel bleed-through from the hotter levels. And...keep track sheet notes if the NR is switched out on particular channels.
 
I typically shoot for around 0 db on the meters - sometimes more :) I don't use the DBX ever though. I don't use my machine as an effect - I track it all to tape.

I brought up +9 as it seem like a lot of guys are running their machines at that operating level and using 499 etc. I bought a half dozen rolls of 406 for quite cheap (maybe $40 a roll) so that's why I use it.
 
What is your goal? Low noise, or tape saturation?

What kind of material do you typically record?
 
I'm usually recording rock / pseudo alt-country... so really I guess noise isn't an issue unless its something acoustic.
 
mdainsd said:
I use 499 exclusively. Drums peaking at about -6 on the meters, other non-percussion closer to zero. A few peaks getting by at +3 on the meters doesnt hurt.
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Yeah...that's pretty where I'm at too.
Do you stick with the recommended bias and VU levels for your deck, or do you "personalize" it in any way?
I tend to stick with the book, though my MX80 calibration manual doesn't mention 499, so I use the MRL guidelines.

It's been awhile since I calibrated it, so I honestly don't remember off the top of my head all my numbers, and I would have to go check my notes...but it's been working nice, and I can hit the meters pretty hard, and I don't get any distortion or too much squash....and it's also pretty darn clean, considering I'm working at 15ips without NR. :)
 
I stick to the book and use MRL guidelines if I dont have the exact cat# tape.

The Sonys store 6 calibration setups in addition to auto-calibrate. Sometimes, I just press the buttons and listen for what I like, LOL.

I recently added Dolby Spectral Recording to the studio racks (got it free at a studio around the corner from my new job in Burbank), so the Tascam has nearly 110dB of dynamic range, so I've backed off on levels and have been pleased thus far.
 
I want some analog sound in there... so that would indicate pushing levels. Just was curious what levels people were tracking to and where they were finding some sweet spots.
 
If it was me and I wanted a balance of low noise and tape say artifacts I'd try +6 tape and setup the deck at 320 nWb/m, and run levels hot...not BURY the meters, just peaks at +3 to+6 and see how that sounds. Nice thing on a 3 head deck you can monitor off the reproduce head while doing test tracking and adjust levels until you get what you want off the tape as far as saturation. This is all assuming you are not using noise reduction of course.
 
Bingo. Deck setup at 250nWb/m but tracking on 185nWb/m nominal tape, like setting the deck up at 320nWb/m but running 250nWb/m tape...same concept but the latter would be a lower noise option. Where do you run your levels and do you use noise reduction?

How do you like the 206? I've heard its great sounding tape. I scored two reels each of NOS 1" and 2" awhile back but haven't tried it...$60 total for the 1" and the 2" was given to me. :D
 
Ok - so set up the MS-16 for +6 operation but run the 406 I have (which is +3)... interesting. I will say that being set up at +3 and running 406 the sound has been pretty neutral... what goes in essentially sounds the same coming out.

I'll try it to see how it sounds!
 
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Yes the sound would be neutral with the machine setup at 185nWb/m and using 406...that sets nominal levels 12dB from that tape's MOL...lots of room, especially if you've been setting peaks at 0 to +3VU. Setting up at 250nWb/m and using 406 gets you 3dB nominal closer to MOL, and then running levels "hot" (peaks at +3 to +6) gets you that much closer. You could also leave it set at 185nWb/m and just bury the meters, but setting up at 250nWb/m and just running peaks another +3VU hotter helps you to still be able to monitor meter activity. You should get some 3rd order harmonic distortion. :)

Experiment. On a machine like the MS16 using 406 is smart especially if you want some more saturation effects and are using dbx. You get some of both worlds...the low noise and more tape sat.
 
I'll give it a shot and see how it sounds. Perhaps a stupid question to follow.. if my board is calibrated to read 0vu at +4dBm then I guess I'll basically be pinning the meters on the board to hit 0vu on the tape machine.
 
You are using the +4dBu balanced XLR inputs on the MS16?

If the answer is "yes", the meters on the MS16 should show 0VU when the mixer output meter shows 0VU. You really want to have the mixer and tape machine meters calibrated to a common reference. Then when you output tone from the mixer and verify the level of the tone is actually at +4dBu from the mixer and the mixer meter reads 0VU, you then calibrate the MS16 meters to show 0VU also (when monitoring the input source, which is what you should be doing when calibrating the tape machine meters). Once the meters are calibrated to each other you do your record level set and reproduce level set.

What fluxivity is your test tape? If you are setting the MS16 up for 250nWb/m, and your test tape is a 250nWb/m tape, then when you reproduce the level set test tone (1kHz), you dial the meters to show 0VU. When you are doing the record level set, you mount your blank tape and input your +4dBu 1kHz tone to the machine and hit record and monitor off the repro head and set the meters tooooooooo...0VU. Don't forget to set the bias. Just follow the manual...if you are setting your machine up for 250nWb/m and your test tape is 250nWb/m everything is going to be 0VU. The difference in what you are doing is you're setting the machine up for +6 tape, but using +3 tape...AND hitting tape a little harder on top of that (+3 to +6VU peaks when tracking program material). But 0VU should be 0VU from the mixer to the deck, record to reproduce when calibrating with tone.

Now...after you chew on that, what questions do you have?

P.S. The only stupid question is the one not asked.
 
Ok - I dig where you're going here. The board and tape machine have both been set to show 0dBm at +4. My text tape is 250 nWb. To set up for +6 operation I need to put the test tape on and set the repro level to -3 when reproducing the 1kHz tone. I have always set to 0vu off the text tape as I i was running 406.

Makes sense teacha (for the Rita Marley reference :) )

Interested to hear how this sounds!!

Edit - I wasn't very thorough yesterday. Yes I am using the XLR connections on the MS-16
 
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sweetbeats said:
Bingo. Deck setup at 250nWb/m but tracking on 185nWb/m nominal tape, like setting the deck up at 320nWb/m but running 250nWb/m tape...same concept but the latter would be a lower noise option. Where do you run your levels and do you use noise reduction?

How do you like the 206? I've heard its great sounding tape. I scored two reels each of NOS 1" and 2" awhile back but haven't tried it...$60 total for the 1" and the 2" was given to me. :D
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I really like the 206. I use it on the 42 for the pre-master or master. My levels will be right around 0VU (+3 to tape). Pushing it past that has some effects which really isn't necessary for a master, but depends on the material.

Tracking on my 38, I've been using the BASF SM911 you sold me a little while ago. Great tape - but my 38 is calibrated for SM911 anyway, so I push the needles harder when tracking there. Would love to get that 58! :)
 
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