Lets see what we can find!

[Henri Devill]

Anyone got a idea for a lyric..One that we can take apart to see what makes it tick?Lets brainstorm and see the rhyme patterns and some of the tenions and releases ect.How that relates to what you do........Lets learn to become better writers!

Don

 

[Sonic Misfit]

Don,

Why don't we start with something that everybody knows, say a Beetles song like "Yesterday?"

 

[Henri Devill]

Perfect..That will do just fine..A song like that is great because it gives us a common sorce of reference..

Don

 

[Sonic Misfit]

Lyrics for Yesterday

Don,

Here are the Lyrics for Yesterday...First thing I noticed is that the hook is the first word in the song...Powerful?


ARTIST: Beatles
TITLE: Yesterday

Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away
Now it looks as though they're here to stay
Oh, I believe in yesterday

Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be
There's a shadow hanging over me
Oh, yesterday came suddenly

{Refrain}
Why she had to go I don't know she wouldn't say
I said something wrong, now I long for yesterday

Yesterday, love was such an easy game to play
Now I need a place to hide away
Oh, I believe in yesterday

{Refrain}

Yesterday, love was such an easy game to play
Now I need a place to hide away
Oh, I believe in yesterday

Mm mm mm mm mm

 

[badgas]

One thing I noticed right off was the structure of the lyrics.

The first line of each verse and refrain lets the listener know that something happened, 'yesterday', or some time in the past.

The second line reenforces the present with the current state of affairs.

Another thing drew my immediate attention is the same thing Sonic mentioned.
Placement of the name of the song is most important. Here it is in every verse and the refrain, some verses handle it twice, without the feeling that it's being over done. Once the song is over, there is little doubt to the title of the song. This is most helpful when your songs are on the market.

This song is somewhat exceptional to me because the lyrics seem to stand alone without the melody. Just reading them makes me relate to them, feel what the lyrics are saying and gives me the secure feeling that, 'yes, this is happening to you, and it has happened to me'. It's easy to be a part of the lyrics.

A simple structure, AABABA without a lot of clutter and overly done pharses.

 

[Sonic Misfit]

This song is somewhat exceptional to me because the lyrics seem to stand alone without the melody. Just reading them makes me relate to them, feel what the lyrics are saying and gives me the secure feeling that, 'yes, this is happening to you, and it has happened to me'. It's easy to be a part of the lyrics.

A simple structure, AABABA without a lot of clutter and overly done pharses.

BG- Good point, and if you think about the difference between a good song and a great song, (assuming that you feel as I do that this is great song) then could this single element be the difference?

 

[joro]

It's the Quality of the meaning of the words.....not the rhymn pattern...not the hook....not the structure....but, the "feeling" you get when you read or hear these words......ya know?

Not that rhymn, structure, and hook are unimpoortant....they are indeed.....it's just....I don't know..........

I can always tell when someone has written from the heart...ya know?

 

[fkeefe]

lets see what we can find

This is a portion of a lyric to a song I have recently written


Verse
Youve been trying hard to tell me
What Ive known for quite sometime
The love I thought would always hold me
Very soon will break this heart of mine

Verse
Lately youve been seen in places
With someone else there at your side
and if I cant stop you from leaving
Please dont stop to say goodbye


Chorus
Just walk away when you leave my life
Then you wont see the tears fall from my eyes
Just walk away then youll never know
The pain I will feel inside as I watch you go

 

[theron]

I like the "rhyme within the rhyme" a line that has a word flow all to its own. Such as "Why she had to go I don't know she wouldn't say " The "go and "know" make it flow oh so smoothly.

A question about the Title of the song.

I title a lot of tunes with words or lines that never appear in the song itself. I like naming the piece. For me, it is a whole other aspect of writting and I tend to shy away from calling a song by the refrain in the chorus or by the first verse.

I think this is due to so many years as a child in church and never ever never finding a hyme that was titled ANYTHING BUT the first 3-5 words of the song. For some reason that bugged the shit out of me<smiles>

I think a title is important but shouldn't be limited to words or lines within the song. The title should just be a solid capturing of the songs body and message.
I posted some lyrics with a title that was a perfect example of what I'm babbleing about and got zero replies so, maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, great thread. I can't wait till it gets longer so's I can learn a thing or two.

Thanks Henri.

Theron.

 

[badgas]

fkeefe.
Theron brings up a very stong point.

Assume, your song is played on the radio, and it's for sale on the internet and in stores.
When someone hears your song, and they like it, they will more than likely want to purchase it.

With the name of the song repeated throughout the song, the listener has no problem remembering it.

You've heard songs where the title is in the chours, and when it's over your still humming the chorus in your mind, and the title. That's what you want.
Drive home the title.

You don't want that listener, with the cash in their hands, to go into the music store and can't remember the songs name.

If you look as some songs, where the placement of the title is, how its used, that should give you and idea of what Theron brought up.

Good luck, and I like your song.
Hope you complete it.

 

[badgas]

Yeah, Joro.
I think each line in that song is utilized to the max of it's space. Each word is doing it's fair amount of work. No fluff. Just good stuff.

 

[Middleman]

I think the thing that amazes me the most about 'Yesterday', is that it really has so few words.

Look at most of the lyrics on this forum and there are at least 4 lines in the verse. This has only three. If I could put as much imagery in so few lines as McCartney I would be a happy man.

Lets try this with fkeefe's lyrics and it stands out better.

Verse:
Youve been trying hard to tell me
What Ive known for quite sometime
Your love will break this heart of mine

Verse
I've seen you in places
Someone else at your side
You did'nt stop to say goodbye

Chorus
Just walk away from my life
Tears fall as I watched you go
Goodbye feelings youll never know

Now I probably just trashed your melody but the lyric is more concise. Took some license in rearranging your thoughts too. Anyway just an observation.

 

[fkeefe]

3line verse

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Now when I wrote this song I didnt have Yesterday in mind more like"Without you"


No I cant forget this evening
And your face as you were leaving
But I guess thats just the way the story goes
You always smile but in your eyes your sorrow
Shows yes it shows


Now I cant forget tomorrow
When I think about my sorrow
I had you there but then I let you go
And now its only fair that I should let
You know what you should know


I cant live if living is without you
I cant live I cant live anymore
I cant live if living is without you
I cant live I cant live anymore

You can look at many songs that have 3 line verses some have 2lines, quite a lot leave out a middle 8 what is important is that it has a strong hook(99%of the time) if you want it published and if its a big ballad good lyrics. I was given some very good advice some years ago by a well known publisher," keep it simple"
The biggest hits are the ones that follow that rule. FK