Let me ask you guys something about buying an expensive microphone

  • Thread starter Thread starter FoulPhil
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What about an ADK Area51 TT with a Universal Audio SOLO/610? Does that sound like a champ set up? We can stick with one of the versions of AKG C414, but how would I run this into a computer? Through a crappy little interface, some soundcard, or do I need a Pro Tools HD system too? lol

I don't think need a big system just a bad ass mic and preamp into a computer and bam! I'm good to go. Any ideas?
 
I don't know that mic so can't comment, other than to say their use of the word "audiophile" on their web site fills me with fear. Usually that word translates to "audiophool" and involves over priced gimmicks with little or no technical merit. However, as I say, I don't know the mic at all.

However, I think that considering a thousand dollar mic preamp before you have an interface sorted out is putting the cart before the horse. "Interface" and "Sound card" are, in effect, two words for the same thing and yes, you need one. Frankly, most of the "crappy little interfaces" you refer to are actually very good and it's important you get a decent one--possibly more important than a boutique pre amp.

No, you don't need a Pro Tools HD system just a decent pre amp and interface to connect to a decent mic.
 
Bobbsy said:
I don't know that mic so can't comment, other than to say their use of the word "audiophile" on their web site fills me with fear. Usually that word translates to "audiophool" and involves over priced gimmicks with little or no technical merit. However, as I say, I don't know the mic at all.

However, I think that considering a thousand dollar mic preamp before you have an interface sorted out is putting the cart before the horse. "Interface" and "Sound card" are, in effect, two words for the same thing and yes, you need one. Frankly, most of the "crappy little interfaces" you refer to are actually very good and it's important you get a decent one--possibly more important than a boutique pre amp.

No, you don't need a Pro Tools HD system just a decent pre amp and interface to connect to a decent mic.
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The thing is I've owned and still have a bunch of crappy ones lol. It's time for an upgrade. I actually came across that mic in another thread here on HR.com which led me to another site where a guy compared it to a U87 and people had a hard time figuring out which was which. So, I figured it might just be another one to take into consideration. Seems like it's a good mic, but I mean I could find a beat up used u87 on ebay for even less than the ones I was originally planning on buying. I'm considering just buying a UA apollo. I kinda want the whole 9 yards, but just on a smaller scale because, because I've owned and had access to much larger systems and they were WAY over kill for me. I'm not trying to sound like a complete noob LOL, but I want quality not quantity. Even something like the DigiRack + I bought and sold was just so average. It was at the same level of My FireStudio Mobile, just more mic inputs lol. Not sure if I'm making sense at all. I don't need a lot I just need a little of the good shit :thumbs up:
 
FoulPhil said:
What about an ADK Area51 TT with a Universal Audio SOLO/610? Does that sound like a champ set up?
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i've been eyeing up the cheaper ADK mics for ages (purely because there's no way i could afford the higher prices stuff) and i've been impressed by everything i've heard from their collection. I do agree with Bobbsy that "audiophile" does tend to make me cringe slightly but i think in ADK's case it's purely so that can categorise their standard mics and "custom" mics. I've not played with any of the UA pre's so can't comment but i am a sucker for the focusrite ISA range.

I don't think need a big system just a bad ass mic and preamp into a computer and bam! I'm good to go. Any ideas?
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Tbf i'm still happy with my firestudio mobile just using external pre's into the line in's, but i do know what you mean. There are some "big boy" interfaces out there but as i've always needed AI's with lots of in's within a reasonable budget so i've not really looked too much at them. Lynx audio is the only name that springs to mind, but that may just be because i know the price of them was waaaayyyyy up there last time i looked :rolleyes:
 
FoulPhil said:
The thing is I've owned and still have a bunch of crappy ones lol. It's time for an upgrade. I actually came across that mic in another thread here on HR.com which led me to another site where a guy compared it to a U87 and people had a hard time figuring out which was which. So, I figured it might just be another one to take into consideration. Seems like it's a good mic, but I mean I could find a beat up used u87 on ebay for even less than the ones I was originally planning on buying. I'm considering just buying a UA apollo. I kinda want the whole 9 yards, but just on a smaller scale because, because I've owned and had access to much larger systems and they were WAY over kill for me. I'm not trying to sound like a complete noob LOL, but I want quality not quantity. Even something like the DigiRack + I bought and sold was just so average. It was at the same level of My FireStudio Mobile, just more mic inputs lol. Not sure if I'm making sense at all. I don't need a lot I just need a little of the good shit :thumbs up:
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Well, just me but I'd stick to known (but high end) manufacturers.

For the interface, I'd have a look at the RME BABYFACE. RME make excellent quality interfaces and the two mic pre amps in the Babyface are sweet sounding. You certainly won't need an expensive, boutique pre amp with one--but, after you've played with it for a while you can decide if you want to add a specific colouration and pick a mic pre accordingly. In the meantime, the RME pres will be nicely warm but neutral.

Microphones? Lots of choice depending on your taste, but I'd stick to some of the mainstream manufacturers: Neumann, AKG, Rode, sE, Shure, EV etc. If you like the tube mic sound I strongly recommend the sE Gemini II or Gemini 5 depending on your budget. Both sound amazing. Or, a bit cheaper, the Rode K2 or NTK.

Or, frankly, go back to the AKG414 with the RME interface. That combo would do an excellent job.
 
Bobbsy said:
Well, just me but I'd stick to known (but high end) manufacturers.

For the interface, I'd have a look at the RME BABYFACE. RME make excellent quality interfaces and the two mic pre amps in the Babyface are sweet sounding. You certainly won't need an expensive, boutique pre amp with one--but, after you've played with it for a while you can decide if you want to add a specific colouration and pick a mic pre accordingly. In the meantime, the RME pres will be nicely warm but neutral.

Microphones? Lots of choice depending on your taste, but I'd stick to some of the mainstream manufacturers: Neumann, AKG, Rode, sE, Shure, EV etc. If you like the tube mic sound I strongly recommend the sE Gemini II or Gemini 5 depending on your budget. Both sound amazing. Or, a bit cheaper, the Rode K2 or NTK.

Or, frankly, go back to the AKG414 with the RME interface. That combo would do an excellent job.
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That baby face is pretty interesting seems expensive for a little thang like that.
 
It's cheaper and does more than that mic pre amp you mentioned though. The RME is a fully professional bit of kit that would be at home in any studio--and the digital options give you lots of expansion paths should you ever get bored with the minimalist route!
 
Or- rather than an interface, if you really want a little of the badass stuff, get a dedicated preamp- Avalon, D.W. Fearn, John Hardy, Pendulum, whatever, and a dedicated A-D converter. Pricewise, start with Lucid and work your way up from there. That should give you one or two channels (do 2-really) that are as good a signal chain as any in the world. I did it (Avalon/Pendulum/Lucid) and never regretted it. I use a Digi002 for more inputs, but critical stuff always seems to go through Avalon/Pendulum and Lucid.
 
Richard Monroe said:
Or- rather than an interface, if you really want a little of the badass stuff, get a dedicated preamp- Avalon, D.W. Fearn, John Hardy, Pendulum, whatever, and a dedicated A-D converter. Pricewise, start with Lucid and work your way up from there. That should give you one or two channels (do 2-really) that are as good a signal chain as any in the world. I did it (Avalon/Pendulum/Lucid) and never regretted it. I use a Digi002 for more inputs, but critical stuff always seems to go through Avalon/Pendulum and Lucid.
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Maybe you could explain a little further because I'm not sure how it works. The pre-amp goes into the converter, which is like a sound card or something? I've read a little about it, but not enough to fully understand...

edit: I don't really want to work my way up either lol. I would rather get what I need a be done with it :D

edit edit:

HOLY SHIT GETTING EXPENSIVE!
 
FoulPhil said:
Maybe you could explain a little further because I'm not sure how it works. The pre-amp goes into the converter, which is like a sound card or something? I've read a little about it, but not enough to fully understand...

edit: I don't really want to work my way up either lol. I would rather get what I need a be done with it :D

edit edit:

HOLY SHIT GETTING EXPENSIVE!
Click to expand...


What I mean by "work your way up" is that there are more expensive A-D converters out there. My Lucid is discontinued, unfortunately. It was a very good one in it's price range, which was at the bottom price of the really good ones. The cheapest thing out there is Behringer ADA8000, which has its uses, but isn't any better than what's in a standard interface. All that the component combo does, is what an interface does, but a lot better. In other words, what's an interface, anyway? One or more preamps with an A-D converter. In the simplest terms, the preamp turns mic level signals into line level signals. The converter turns the line level signal into a digital signal- 0's and 1's that your computer can understand. OK- a $50 Behringer mixer has 8 preamps in it. They cost about $1.50 each. My Avalon AD2022 has 2 preamps in it. They cost about $1250 each. Which one sounds better? Take a wild guess.
A $200 interface has a 2 channel A-D converter in it. It costs about $40. A Burl Audio B2 Bomber DAC is a 2 channel A-D D-A converter. It costs $2,500. Which one do you think sounds better? Take a wild guess.

I'm sad to say that you are now at the gateway of a couple of horrifying discoveries. The first one is that real pro level audio gear is damned expensive. The second, which you will make only if you shell out that kind of money, is that like in car racing, 90% of the money is spent on the last 10% of performance. That 10% is the difference between 26th place, and the checkered flag. The other bitch of it is that there aren't that many levels between the prosumer level you are at right now, and that damned expensive pro gear.

Right now, the cheapest 2 channel A-D converter that really is better than what's in your interface may very well be RME ADI-2 at about $950:

RME ADI-2 | Sweetwater.com

And that's what they call "affordable"! The really, really good ones are more like $2,500. My Avalon AD2022 cost me $2000. My Pendulum MDP-1, $2500. My Lucid, about $850. (damn- I'm so pissed off they discontinued it). What do I get for all that money? First, I get 2 clean solid state channels and 2 tube based, slightly colored channels that are about as good as any in the world, with good mics plugged into them. The badass purists would say I need to ditch that Lucid and get a Crane Song or something. No problem. Just put it in a box and mail it to me, you rich SOB.

Understand this also- I feel your pain. I'm not some rich guy who gets all the toys he wants. I'm a registered nurse who has worked and saved for years to own the kind of gear I own. So here's the real deal- Once you consider the cost of preamps and A-D conversion, top quality recording channels cost between $1500 and $2500 *per channel*. You can spend quite a bit more, but I'm not convinced you get anything for it, except the ability to impress a handful of audio engineers who actually know what that stuff is. When you throw in the $2500 mic, you're into the $5,000 per channel range. Ooh baby.

So- is there any middle road, where you can get a real improvement from your interface without selling a car? The best mid-priced (take that with a grain of salt) unit I know of is Joemeek twinQ:

Joemeek TWINQ2 | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

It's a 2 channel channel strip (a preamp with compression and EQ) with analog and digital output. If your interface has digital input, you can take a digital signal off the twinQ, and bypass the preamps and A-D converters in your interface and your interface will send the digital data to the computer. Unless you have an unusual soundcard, the Joemeek won't send the signal straight to the computer. It outputs coaxial or optical AES or S/PDIF, but not USB or firewire, which is why you would pass the signal through an interface, just to turn S/PDIF into USB output. Is it as good as the high priced spread I referenced above? No. But it is better than your interface, and I use the Joemeek along with the Avalon and Pendulum listed above with very good results.

Good luck, Foulphil. The jump from prosumer to real professional recording gear is an exercise in sticker shock! We'll be there for you.
 
Richard Monroe said:
What I mean by "work your way up" is that there are more expensive A-D converters out there. My Lucid is discontinued, unfortunately. It was a very good one in it's price range, which was at the bottom price of the really good ones. The cheapest thing out there is Behringer ADA8000, which has its uses, but isn't any better than what's in a standard interface. All that the component combo does, is what an interface does, but a lot better. In other words, what's an interface, anyway? One or more preamps with an A-D converter. In the simplest terms, the preamp turns mic level signals into line level signals. The converter turns the line level signal into a digital signal- 0's and 1's that your computer can understand. OK- a $50 Behringer mixer has 8 preamps in it. They cost about $1.50 each. My Avalon AD2022 has 2 preamps in it. They cost about $1250 each. Which one sounds better? Take a wild guess.
A $200 interface has a 2 channel A-D converter in it. It costs about $40. A Burl Audio B2 Bomber DAC is a 2 channel A-D D-A converter. It costs $2,500. Which one do you think sounds better? Take a wild guess.

I'm sad to say that you are now at the gateway of a couple of horrifying discoveries. The first one is that real pro level audio gear is damned expensive. The second, which you will make only if you shell out that kind of money, is that like in car racing, 90% of the money is spent on the last 10% of performance. That 10% is the difference between 26th place, and the checkered flag. The other bitch of it is that there aren't that many levels between the prosumer level you are at right now, and that damned expensive pro gear.

Right now, the cheapest 2 channel A-D converter that really is better than what's in your interface may very well be RME ADI-2 at about $950:

RME ADI-2 | Sweetwater.com

And that's what they call "affordable"! The really, really good ones are more like $2,500. My Avalon AD2022 cost me $2000. My Pendulum MDP-1, $2500. My Lucid, about $850. (damn- I'm so pissed off they discontinued it). What do I get for all that money? First, I get 2 clean solid state channels and 2 tube based, slightly colored channels that are about as good as any in the world, with good mics plugged into them. The badass purists would say I need to ditch that Lucid and get a Crane Song or something. No problem. Just put it in a box and mail it to me, you rich SOB.

Understand this also- I feel your pain. I'm not some rich guy who gets all the toys he wants. I'm a registered nurse who has worked and saved for years to own the kind of gear I own. So here's the real deal- Once you consider the cost of preamps and A-D conversion, top quality recording channels cost between $1500 and $2500 *per channel*. You can spend quite a bit more, but I'm not convinced you get anything for it, except the ability to impress a handful of audio engineers who actually know what that stuff is. When you throw in the $2500 mic, you're into the $5,000 per channel range. Ooh baby.

So- is there any middle road, where you can get a real improvement from your interface without selling a car? The best mid-priced (take that with a grain of salt) unit I know of is Joemeek twinQ:

Joemeek TWINQ2 | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Most Orders Ship Free!

It's a 2 channel channel strip (a preamp with compression and EQ) with analog and digital output. If your interface has digital input, you can take a digital signal off the twinQ, and bypass the preamps and A-D converters in your interface and your interface will send the digital data to the computer. Unless you have an unusual soundcard, the Joemeek won't send the signal straight to the computer. It outputs coaxial or optical AES or S/PDIF, but not USB or firewire, which is why you would pass the signal through an interface, just to turn S/PDIF into USB output. Is it as good as the high priced spread I referenced above? No. But it is better than your interface, and I use the Joemeek along with the Avalon and Pendulum listed above with very good results.

Good luck, Foulphil. The jump from prosumer to real professional recording gear is an exercise in sticker shock! We'll be there for you.
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Damn man. I'm not sure I'll be able to spend that much for a while lol. It might be over stepping my boundaries. Let me ask you something though. They have this UA Apollo which says it has high end preamps and converters. Still kind of pricy, but if as good as they claim would be worth it to me. Now do you think they just trying to up sell average gear or is it really all they claim it is? Would it get me somewhat close to the high end gear you're talking about or would I have to bite the bullet and go ahead and just keep saving until I can afford the good shit? Based on this yotube video it sounds outstanding to me, even when most youtube videos don't sound so great. What do you think?

 
What I think is- I don't have a clue. I've never used the unit, and I won't tell you something about spending a pile of money by making up the answer. I expect some of the folks here that are into higher end gear will have experience with the unit. Just make sure that the digital format the unit puts out is something your computer can understand. I know you're looking for quality, but quality is useless without compatibility.
 
Richard Monroe said:
What I think is- I don't have a clue. I've never used the unit, and I won't tell you something about spending a pile of money by making up the answer. I expect some of the folks here that are into higher end gear will have experience with the unit. Just make sure that the digital format the unit puts out is something your computer can understand. I know you're looking for quality, but quality is useless without compatibility.
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I better read a lot about how that stuff works as far as the conversions go so I can maybe compare specs or something. Computer stuff comes easy to me, always keep mine current.
 
A few thoughts.

First off, you can't really evaluate things like mics and pre amps by spec. You really have to listen to how they sound. A presence peak in the upper mid ranges on a mic might make the specs look less good--but be what makes the sound perfect for your voice. Same with pre amps etc.

Second, you need to aim for some degree of balance in your collections of kit. A $2000 mic going into your computer via a $40 Behringer interface makes no sense but neither does vice versa.

Third, unless you have really top notch acoustic treatment and excellent monitors, chances are you won't even hear the difference between the "good" stuff and the "boutique" stuff.

Fourth, the idea of getting an ideal set up and never needing anything else is flawed. Most studios have a selection of options in terms of mic and pre amp and they choose what suits a particular recording on the day. I'd probably want to have two or three $500 mics than a single $2000 model. Similarly, I wouldn't assume an expensive pre amp is "perfect". Rather, I'd like to use a mic through the built in pre amp in a really good interface and, over the course of many months, decide I'd like a pre amp that's warmer/brighter/more neutral/more bass or whatever then buy a specific mic pre to achieve this effect.
 
Bobbsy said:
A few thoughts.

First off, you can't really evaluate things like mics and pre amps by spec. You really have to listen to how they sound. A presence peak in the upper mid ranges on a mic might make the specs look less good--but be what makes the sound perfect for your voice. Same with pre amps etc.

Second, you need to aim for some degree of balance in your collections of kit. A $2000 mic going into your computer via a $40 Behringer interface makes no sense but neither does vice versa.

Third, unless you have really top notch acoustic treatment and excellent monitors, chances are you won't even hear the difference between the "good" stuff and the "boutique" stuff.

Fourth, the idea of getting an ideal set up and never needing anything else is flawed. Most studios have a selection of options in terms of mic and pre amp and they choose what suits a particular recording on the day. I'd probably want to have two or three $500 mics than a single $2000 model. Similarly, I wouldn't assume an expensive pre amp is "perfect". Rather, I'd like to use a mic through the built in pre amp in a really good interface and, over the course of many months, decide I'd like a pre amp that's warmer/brighter/more neutral/more bass or whatever then buy a specific mic pre to achieve this effect.
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I'll take it all into consideration. I figured with something like A/D conversion you would be able to estimate if it was good by specs lol. Then again I wouldn't know. I'm not going to buy anything for a while. So, I'll have plenty of time to come back to this thread, read it over and try to figure out what would work best for me. Right now I have a room in the house I put together years ago with acoustic treatment and all that. Also seeing how I'm not a professional musician and it's highly doubtful I'll ever make any money off my music I have to really think about how much is really too much for someone in my situation. At the same time I would also like to get a better sound over all just for my own personal pleasure :D

John Willett said:
You are paying for the quality, not the size :D
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I hear that!
 
FoulPhil said:
I'll take it all into consideration. I figured with something like A/D conversion you would be able to estimate if it was good by specs lol. Then again I wouldn't know. I'm not going to buy anything for a while. So, I'll have plenty of time to come back to this thread, read it over and try to figure out what would work best for me. Right now I have a room in the house I put together years ago with acoustic treatment and all that. Also seeing how I'm not a professional musician and it's highly doubtful I'll ever make any money off my music I have to really think about how much is really too much for someone in my situation. At the same time I would also like to get a better sound over all just for my own personal pleasure :D



I hear that!
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Frankly, on the A to D side (and, indeed the D to A at the other end of the process), as long as you avoid the super cheapies there'll likely be no difference in sound or spec. The differences come in with the mic pre amps in the same unit, as well as the routing options on the box. For example on the routing options, an interface without direct hardware monitoring would be less than useless (due to latency) no matter how good the sound quality is. Similarly, I probably wouldn't touch an interface unless the line out jacks were balanced--that sort of thing.
 
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