guitaristic
prophet of Dave
I am happy this thread was necro-d simply because I was able to read the following and have a nice chuckle 
CFox
Banned
I am willing to bet Nudey's tone is one of friendly exasperation given the rest of the wording and parting smiley. Of course dont know for sure so what do you do ? With grade school sarcasm you pounce on what constitutes a very small percentage of the total word count and even less of a percentage of the content. The actual content of Nudey's post was informative and useful.
The well named thread has garnered 13,000 views - all no doubt directed here from this being the very first google search result. With only 20 posts, this means there are plenty of non participating viewers looking to gain some insight into the recording techniques of Led Zep. To act the tribal elder and get all precious over "how things are done around here" is not conducive to welcoming the newcomer into the fold - no matter when they registered or how they resuscitate a dormant thread.
Who is the troll I am trying to save ?
Armistice
Son of Yoda
If your first sentence on a bulletin board you registered for years ago accuses, even playfully, everyone of being on crack, sorry, but you're trolling by my way of thinking, and a smiley on the end of the post doesn't change that.
You can call people you know all sorts of stuff, once you know them, do it to strangers and hey, they might just react.
You'll disagree with that no doubt. I'll try to live with that.
You can call people you know all sorts of stuff, once you know them, do it to strangers and hey, they might just react.
You'll disagree with that no doubt. I'll try to live with that.
CFox
Banned
Well. I am not disagreeing just outright telling you that your way of thinking is flawed.
fat_fleet
Swollen Member
Well. I am not disagreeing just outright telling you that your way of thinking is flawed.
What are you on crack?
Armistice
Son of Yoda
Well. I am not disagreeing just outright telling you that your way of thinking is flawed.
I don't know how I've come so far in life without the benefit of your philosphical and intellectual guidance C....
Oh wait, perhaps it's because I didn't have the.... no....
D
david42
New member
With all due respect, unless I misread the data on the site, there is only pure speculation as to what Led Zepplin did. Bill Oneill was not present at any of the recordings, he just speculates what he thinks was done on the recordings. Not a very reliable source of data, unless your into creating myths or misinformation.
And last of all, who appointed you the thread monitor? This thread can be anything it wants to be.
Now here is a bit of Zepplin trivia right from Andy Johns the guy who recorded "When The Levee Breaks"...
"Another thing we used (for delay) was the old Binson Echorec. Listen to "When The Levee Breaks." That was me putting two M160s on the second floor with no other microphones at all because I wanted to get John Bonham the way he actually sounded. And it worked! Page would say that he made me do it , but he was down at the pub. He did bring me his Binson Echorec for the track through."
Andy John links of note:
(url removed)
(url removed) (You will need bable to convert from French to English)
Lots of other stuff just do a search with his name.
I edited the "url removed" because the forum won't let me post with it.
In the documentary film "It Might Get Loud" some Zeppelin history and recording technique is discussed by Jimmy. The film visits Headley Grange where the fourth album was recorded and shows the very stairwell with Jimmy reminiscing over how they did it. He agrees with Johns' account, but Jimmy recounts it as though he were there. He was the producer after all, so I'm not so sure of stories like he was down at the pub. It was probably Bonzo having to be fetched from the pub, ha ha.
Some other tidbits no-one has mentioned--layered guitars. In many places the guitars you hear, even though they seem like just one, are actually twenty tracks, each with very slight changes in tone. The spots where it is slightly off is where that unique sound comes from. I do it too.
Another trick Jimmy used for guitars at Headley Grange was pointing the amp's speaker cab up the chimney and hanging a mic down from the top. (Can you imagine Johns up on the roof cussing about having to get up there, ha ha)
Someone also mentioned the guitar solo on Stairway to Heaven. Telecaster straight into a Super amp. Layered.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Believe it or not, the OP's OP was their only post !
As to whether the rest of the post was informative and useful, that is simply a matter of opinion. Some of it was, some of it wasn't.
When I first got involved at HR, Manslick asked me if I was on drugs when I said I'd never noticed sloppy playing on Jimmy Page's part. It was obvious from the tone that he was being playful and I replied by asking if he was selling any. We carried on this to and fro banter for a few posts and then got on with our lives.
Their love of blues, jazz, folk, Indian and Arabic music is well documented but never have I seen anyone pick up on Page and Jones' pop sensibility which was ingrained in them due to having appeared on so many pop hits {as diverse as Tom Jones and Dusty Springfield to Donovan and Joe Cocker}.
So having a bent towards being able to capture a diverse range of sounds and make them all work was key to much of Zeppelin's recorded output throughout.
There are so many little pieces of the puzzle that go into making up the overall sound of a band, but in the case of Led Zeppelin, Jimmy Page's layered guitars are one of the key components. It's revealing listening to their stuff with headphones because you can hear more than one guitar at play {and I'm not talking about the 'rhythm and lead' dichotomy that was standard for bands with just one guitar}. On some songs, there are up to 14 guitars, tightly played. I always felt their live guitar sound was ever so weak in comparison to that of their studio records but it's not hard to see why.
John Paul Jones loved jazz, soul and Motown. He was hugely influenced by Motown because on the Motown records he dug, he could hear the bass ! In Detroit, they had figured out how to clearly capture that bottom end without making needles jump on vinyl and he looked very much on his travels about studios, as to how this could be achieved. It stood him in good stead when Zeppelin were in full flight.
Nowadays, the average punter has so much more info and access to it than they did back in the day when recording was something of a mystical art. Even engineers working for different studios wouldn't share their secrets with other engineers. I get the impression that producers and engineers that came up through the 60s were quite surprized at the voracious appetite of ordinary listeners or home recording types by the 80s, for clues on how they got various sounds.
I once said of you that you were the kind of person I'd want as my lawyer. I retract that !
There is nothing playful or smileyville about the title or the opening and closing sentences. They carry a tone, an obviously intended tone. It was obvious to me. It was obvious to the guys that answered before me. It seems obvious to most of those that posted after me. But I forget, you don't like people being sure of things. You seem to frequently miss the tone behind things people say. But that's not a criticism, just an observation.
As to whether the rest of the post was informative and useful, that is simply a matter of opinion. Some of it was, some of it wasn't.
I spent 26 years working with kids, many of whom were in grade school. Many of them, once they knew what sarcasm was and how to employ it, became legendary in their application of it. Over the years, when I've met up with various of those kids, now adults, we frequently laugh at some of the pearls those "grade school kids" used to come out with. My kids are 7 and 10. Some of their sarcasm almost redefines the art. I'm neither embarrassed nor insulted to have the venerable Reynard refer to my quips as being
. That's a backhand compliment in my world.
^^^^^^^This.
When I first got involved at HR, Manslick asked me if I was on drugs when I said I'd never noticed sloppy playing on Jimmy Page's part. It was obvious from the tone that he was being playful and I replied by asking if he was selling any. We carried on this to and fro banter for a few posts and then got on with our lives.
Jimmy Page's and John Paul Jones' pre Zeppelin careers were also a major factor - although Page 'put the band together', according to Robert Plant it was he and Jones that financed the band and were the guv'nors in the early days. Plant and Bonham were the junior members on £20 a week. Page had been an in demand session guitarist all over the gaff and a staff producer at Andrew Oldham's {the Stones' manager} label, Immediate records. Jones had been an in demand arranger {Stones, herman's hermits, donovan etc} and session keyboardist and bassist on numerous hits through the 60s. So the two men brought musical and instrumental skill, a varied palette, arranging and production skills {and in Page's case, access to top notch engineers on both sides of the Atlantic, like Glyn and Andy Johns, Eddie Kramer, George Chikantz, Ron Nevison and Keith Harwood} and importantly, a keen sense of independence that enabled Zeppelin to try out all kinds of moves that many other bands wouldn't have been able to.
Their love of blues, jazz, folk, Indian and Arabic music is well documented but never have I seen anyone pick up on Page and Jones' pop sensibility which was ingrained in them due to having appeared on so many pop hits {as diverse as Tom Jones and Dusty Springfield to Donovan and Joe Cocker}.
So having a bent towards being able to capture a diverse range of sounds and make them all work was key to much of Zeppelin's recorded output throughout.
There are so many little pieces of the puzzle that go into making up the overall sound of a band, but in the case of Led Zeppelin, Jimmy Page's layered guitars are one of the key components. It's revealing listening to their stuff with headphones because you can hear more than one guitar at play {and I'm not talking about the 'rhythm and lead' dichotomy that was standard for bands with just one guitar}. On some songs, there are up to 14 guitars, tightly played. I always felt their live guitar sound was ever so weak in comparison to that of their studio records but it's not hard to see why.
John Paul Jones loved jazz, soul and Motown. He was hugely influenced by Motown because on the Motown records he dug, he could hear the bass ! In Detroit, they had figured out how to clearly capture that bottom end without making needles jump on vinyl and he looked very much on his travels about studios, as to how this could be achieved. It stood him in good stead when Zeppelin were in full flight.
Nowadays, the average punter has so much more info and access to it than they did back in the day when recording was something of a mystical art. Even engineers working for different studios wouldn't share their secrets with other engineers. I get the impression that producers and engineers that came up through the 60s were quite surprized at the voracious appetite of ordinary listeners or home recording types by the 80s, for clues on how they got various sounds.
Armistice
Son of Yoda
So I'm one of the people who thinks JP can be a scrappy player, but I'll admit, I've never listened closely through good headphones.... any particular tracks I should check out GT? I may have to revise my opinion!
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Actually, I'm one of those people that can't tell scrappy playing on records ! I tend to accept what is there from an artist. Having said that, over the last couple of years, I do notice if a singer is out of tune and I did notice on one Simon and Garfunkel tune {I think it might've been "America", but I wouldn't swear to it} that the drummer couldn't play in waltz time so he sounds really off. On some of the early christian rock records of the 60s and early 70s, there's some atrocious playing and singing and I won't take the excuse that no one knew what they were doing. But by and large, I can't tell crummy playing unless it's really crummy.So I'm one of the people who thinks JP can be a scrappy player, but I'll admit, I've never listened closely through good headphones.... any particular tracks I should check out GT? I may have to revise my opinion!
As for Page, from the moment I heard Led Zeppelin, I loved his playing. I loved all their playing. I think that was it, the songs were so powerful and the impact of the instruments and voice so mesmeric, I just never noticed anything off.
If you listen with phones or even buds to anything by Zep after the debut album, you get an interesting insight into the guitar. I was swimming not so long ago when "Out on the tiles" came on my MP3 player and for the first time in 30+ years, I noticed separate guitar tracks on both sides of the spectrum. But what really stands out about them, even in the days when I never consciously thought about this, is the vast range of sounds they managed to fuse together into a coherent whole. Lots of guitar sounds, pianos, electric pianos, organs, clavinets, synthesizers, mellotrons, a voice that effortlessly roamed from high to low, drums that could be loud and powerful or mellow. I once observed that John Bonham was a fantastic folk - rock drummer and a very musical one, not just a powerhouse.
CFox
Banned
Gt i will deal with your incessant blather later, if I cbf"d.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Let's stay on-topic here and not pepper the thread with Cave-worthy flavor.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
That's what people used to say about Led Zeppelin ! "They play too loud and too long. I can't abide that incessant blather !! ".