Least Spillage?

[PRS Addict]

Hello, I just finished building a recording studio in my basement, and I have moved my current one (in my bedroom) down there. I am planning to record a guitarist and drummer simultaneously in a rectangular room approximately 18X12'. In what way should I position the amp (marshall full stack) in relation to the drum set (in a corner) to get the least spillage from the drums into the amp mic and vise versa? Thanks for any help you can provide

 

[Mo Facta]

Use as many directional mics as possible, particularly dynamic mics. Obviously you want to face the guitar amp AWAY from the drums and also place baffles (book cases filled with books may also work) in between the kit and the amp.

Keep the laws of physics in mind. Depending on the size and reflectivity of your basement, results may vary.

Cheers

 

[mixsit]

...(marshall full stack)
..drum set (in a corner)

Item one- Helps (in almost all respect) to match 'cab size to the venue. In this case it's get the guitar smaller and the guitarist near it. Less size and volume, the gobos around it are more effective, but the bigger thing or offshoot' is drums are relatively louder in the room and at the drum mics!

Corners- Known for boomy lows in the room, walls are close therefore reflections stronger.
Upside –maybe- the reflections times are short.
Down side- the reflection times are short. If you can get some or them outside or the Haas range (maybe eight or ten feet or so) they may not blur the image as much.

18x12-- Maybe drums back against the long wall in the last third or so of the room, (or angling from there accross and down toward the far corner?), guitar back against same wall at the other end but firing more straight across the short path.
Gobo wall partly out from the amp, some in front of the kit, maybe overhead and behind.

 

[Spare Dougal]

If you use Cardioid mics, position the instruments so that the 'off-axis' of the mics will point at the instrument you DON'T want to pick up ie actually point the amp at the drums. This will mean the direct sound is being cancelled out. If you point them AWAY from each other then the direct sound is going straight into the mics.

Baffling is good if you can get it and have the players next to their amps definitely, but the other most important thing is Volume. if you're instruments are equal in volume, then the spill from other instruments should be minimal and manageable. When you have one quiet sound and one loud sound, you'll have to boost the mic amp of the quiet sound to get it up to level, but in doing that you'll boost the spill from the loud sound. So balance your guitar amp to your drums. Don't let your guitarist dictate the level because 'that's how he get's his sound'. It'll sound exactly the same on mic quiet or loud.

You should be OK in a room of that size, maybe used a few rugs (on the floor and walls) and curtains to try and deaden things a bit, but that's not necessarily needed. Check out this band... ROWSE, at the bottom of the home page there's a link to a player. Have a listen to Stray Dogs or two lonely souls. Drums, bass, two electric guitars, done in a quite reverberant room of similar size to yours, all live, no baffles, by just balancing the levels.

Embrace the spill and be aware you're going to get some and go with it. Make sure you try and get good performance more than anything. If you get this the spill will be almost irrelevant. MixTips: Performance Is Everything

 

[theD1CKENS]

are you recording them together for any particular reason?

also, a full-stack is just overkill in almost every situation. you'll get the best sounds from your amp if your push them harder. it's called the 'point of excursion' I believe. a full-stack pushed to that point will be DEAFENING, especially in a room that size, but at comparable volumes to where the drums will be, it may not acheive that full and powerful sound. if a smaller amp isn't available(I would think somewhere in the 30-50 watt range, give or take), consider using only one cabinet.

also, keep in mind that using gobos essentially makes your room smaller, which may or may not be a good thing. it's certainly something to think about tho

 

[PRS Addict]

For the many that asked why I'm using a full stack, and not a smaller (possibly combo) amp:

The guitarist I am recording is meticulous with his tone to say the least and he will only use a specific head of his and a certain cab to get his 'great tone.' I will definitely suggest removing one cabinet!

I'm recording them together, since their band consists of a guitarist, drummer, bassist, and vocalist. The Bassist will be plugging directly into the mixer, so I don't need to worry about any mic issues. The Vocalist will be overdubbing in an isolation room, so there can't be much spillage there! I have suggested doing it one track at a time, but they hate that idea for two reasons:
1. They don't remember their own songs well enough
2. They hate the idea of a click track, and each has a driving persistence to speed up

Thanks for the tips!

 

[grimtraveller]

They don't remember their own songs well enough

This isn't as daft as it sounds though it's not something I recommend. But I've been in situations where I didn't know my own song well enough because it came so close to the session. So while recording I kept making mistakes. The interesting thing is that once I'd made mistakes a few times, I'd then get a take with no mistakes that ended up as the keeper. Weird.

 

[Spare Dougal]

The guitarist I am recording is meticulous with his tone to say the least and he will only use a specific head of his and a certain cab to get his 'great tone.' I will definitely suggest removing one cabinet!

Invest in a power break (Marshall Amps :: MG Series) This will allow your guitar is to drive his amp as hard as he likes and you to set it at a reasonable level for recording. As theDickens says you'll get the same effect of driving the amp in a 30 watt amp but with lower volumes.

Alternatively have a look at the NanoAmp. It's a 1watt amp that allows you to drive it hard and get that 'tone' but at reasonable levels. It looks small but sounds massive.

 

[theD1CKENS]

but they hate that idea for two reasons:
1. They don't remember their own songs well enough
2. They hate the idea of a click track, and each has a driving persistence to speed up

I hope you're incredibly patient. good luck

 

[witzendoz]

In what way should I position the amp (marshall full stack)

I see a problem right there, why would you need a full stack in a recording studio? If you read about recording session most guitarists use a smaller studio setup and crank the amp to get the sound. Something like a 15 or 20 watt valve combo.

alan