Lcr

[andrushkiwt]

Yup. LCR. I actually don't think I've heard a single track in the clinic here using LCR panning. I'm going to give it a try tonight on the current mix I'm working on...should be ready by the weekend, early next week at latest.

Thoughts? Have you tried it and didn't like it?

If you don't know, here:

Moulton Laboratories :: Principles of Multitrack Mixing: The Phantom Image

and here, if you don't like reading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_dKQAnuNG0

 

[Robus]

Makes a lot of sense to me. I hard pan guitars often.

 

[Greg_L]

Please don't base anything off of what you see in the clinic.

I do it all the time. It's no big deal. That's how people sort of had to do it for a long time.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Please don't base anything off of what you see in the clinic.

I do it all the time. It's no big deal. That's how people sort of had to do it for a long time.

nothing was based off the clinic. the comment meant that I don't think people here are going to be able to identify with it since it isn't used much around here. I didn't think it would get any remarks, in other words. that is all

I do wonder about supplemental guitars though. like a set playing octaves...i'm wondering how they will clash/exist with the heavier rhythm guitars also occupying the L and R

 

[Greg_L]

All you have to do is try it.

 

[RFR]

I do LRC. Even in the clinic. I got a strictly lrc mix up right now.

 

[andrushkiwt]

All you have to do is try it.

lol, i never said I wouldn't. In fact, I actually did say that I would do exactly that tonight! I'm simply making discussion. I didn't know you use it often - I'll have to re-listen to some of your mixes

---------- Update ----------

RFR:

the "all analog" one?

 

[Greg_L]

lol, i never said I wouldn't. In fact, I actually did say that I would do exactly that tonight! I'm simply making discussion. I didn't know you use it often - I'll have to re-listen to some of your mixes

I didn't always do it that way, but more recently it's back to being my usual preferred method. I don't think I've posted anything in the last few years so you might not hear it.

 

[RFR]

Theres mostly lrc in that one, but the "soulful rock ballad" is all lrc.

My thoughts on lrc are that its great. You're carving out space without having to do a lot of eq.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Theres mostly lrc in that one, but the "soulful rock ballad" is all lrc.

My thoughts on lrc are that its great. You're carving out space without having to do a lot of eq.

Problems with OH's picking up a tom or something that is more toward C in the stereo OH track but then moving that tom hard L?I'm just trying to go over some obstacles I'm seeing now, while I have you guys here. I'll try it out later...but yeah the stereo OH's are picking things up and placing them in the spectrum, no? Unless I'm not imagining this correctly. OH L and OH R will give a sense of the toms having space between them, wouldn't they?

 

[RFR]

I've found that with drums you get them spaced out through the whole left to right soundstage. Ill usually use 6 mics.
OH far left and right, kick and snare center and toms around 9 and 3 o'clock.

You have all the mic bleed so everything melts into everything else to some degree.

The rest of the instruments are hard left and right.

 

[Farview]

I mostly mix LCR. Any panning of the drums is in the overheads, the tom mics are all panned center. Overheads panned wide, hi hat and ride panned wide. Vocals, solos and bass panned center, rhythm guitars panned wide.

 

[andrushkiwt]

I've found that with drums you get them spaced out through the whole left to right soundstage. Ill usually use 6 mics.
OH far left and right, kick and snare center and toms around 9 and 3 o'clock.

You have all the mic bleed so everything melts into everything else to some degree.

The rest of the instruments are hard left and right.

In Superior Drummer, I turn the bleed off, except the OH's pick up a bit of everything, snare particularly. I was going to leave the OH's as a stereo track, centered. But then, what i'm saying, is that rack tom 1, for example, will sound in those OH's like it's at 10 o'clock, but I'll be moving rack tom 1 to HL...I'm not sure how that will sound. I suppose I could just make the stereo OH's into 2 mono tracks and go HL and HR with them.

 

[andrushkiwt]

I mostly mix LCR. Any panning of the drums is in the overheads, the tom mics are all panned center. Overheads panned wide, hi hat and ride panned wide. Vocals, solos and bass panned center, rhythm guitars panned wide.

What if your OH's were a single stereo track?

 

[RFR]

In Superior Drummer, I turn the bleed off, except the OH's pick up a bit of everything, snare particularly. I was going to leave the OH's as a stereo track, centered. But then, what i'm saying, is that rack tom 1, for example, will sound in those OH's like it's at 10 o'clock, but I'll be moving rack tom 1 to HL...I'm not sure how that will sound. I suppose I could just make the stereo OH's into 2 mono tracks and go HL and HR with them.

I've never used any of that stuff. Just live drums. With the exception of early alesis drum machines. But everything ever posted here has always been live drums. I wouldn't know where to begin with stuff like superior or ezy drummer. But I imagine I'd keep the mic bleed turned on for more realism.

 

[Farview]

What if your OH's were a single stereo track?

If it is a single stereo track, it is effectively two mics panned hard. Therefore, if you leave the pan control in the center, it will be the same as having the two mono tracks panned wide..

If you are planning on panning the individual tom tracks wide, that will sound really silly.

 

[easlern]

I read the article but I don't understand what is LRC? Like do you mean each track is either 100% right, 100% left, or 100% center?

 

[andrushkiwt]

I read the article but I don't understand what is LRC? Like do you mean each track is either 100% right, 100% left, or 100% center?

Yes. Apparently it's used all over, especially in rock type stuff. The reasons have a lot to do with the various methods of listening to music today and to create space in the center, although its nothing new. Hi hat hard L, instead of 33% or whatever. For example

 

[wtfuhz]

I like my overheads to be panned inwards a bit with my room mic just a little further outwards but still not hard LR. Same for background vocals. My guitars end up sitting on top and not fighting the cymbals for space. Bass, lead vocals, kick, and snare centered (usually).

LCR takes away from my precious stereo image. That's just my with my mixes, your results may vary.

 

[ashcat_lt]

C

I suppose I could just make the stereo OH's into 2 mono tracks and go HL and HR with them.

And exactly how do you suppose that helps? Like farview said, they're already hard panned. The problem you're running into is the fact that the toms exist to some extent in both channels. You can't get them panned any further no matter what you do. Your options are:

1) Collapse the OHs to mono and pan that either L, R, or (probably) C

B) Render the OHs in two (or more) passes, one for each tom, then either throw away one of the channels from each or collapse them to mono and then chose L C or R for each independently. This is a whole lot easier with VSTi drums than trying to get a real drummer to overdub individual toms.

Cymbals are going to have the same issues, BTW.


I personally haven't ever really mixed anything where LCR was appropriate. I can see where certains types of production could make it work, but most things I do just won't work that way.