Last One In The Room - alternative mix

There's a problem with the drums generally and the snare and in particular. I'm not going to comment on the songwriting because it seems to be pretty good, in keeping with your other efforts. The snare is awful, to be frank. It's like a little pop gun, where it ought to be dominating a mix like this.

I don't want to antagonise you because you really seem to be doing your best to create great mixes and songs. For the most part, you do very well. However, I can't reconcile your desire to create natural-sounding rock mixes with the overbearing presence of pitch-correction on the vocal. If I'm wrong about that I apologise, but it sounds tuned to within an inch of its life, to me. Don't get me wrong, I accept that this kind of thing is considered a must in modern production, but if you profess a desire to create natural-sounding mixes then this isn't the way to go about it.
 
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Agree on the palm mutes, particularly in the intro, where they're out on their own - it doesn't sound great - and also with the overcompression - just a bit too much and I think it's sucking the dynamics out of the song. Also agree with bubba that I'd like a bit more snare and that it's coming across a little "poppy", but perhaps it's the mix bus stuff having that effect.

Most of the rest sounds pretty good to me. You have a knack for this particular style of pop/rock and a good line in sing-along vocal melodies in the chorus via harmonies. Nice work.
 
Ok, so the thing is that yes I do want them more natural, live sounding...but creating that out of amp sims and programmed drums is the challenge. I'm working with what I have. I want all these critiques because they'll help me get better results one way or another.

The vocal isn't tuned too much really. Just more of a coat I guess. A touch up.

And you're right on the snare. I tried a new compressor called Rough Rider. It beefs it up but also takes some top out. A lot I guess. Not sure I like it anymore.

Thanks!
 
Mix sounds very polished andrushkiwt - I think it sounds very commercial and powerful, but not sure it sounds more 'natural' or live sounding if that's what you're going for. I like how it kicks in after the opening section and you've made a catchy tune here.

I'm not mad keen on the tone of the intro guitars - they're a little over fizzed for me I think.

Would be interested to hear how it sounds without the autotune if it's only really there as a touch up - whether this would help in the sense of making something more natural sounding.
 
If you're uploading MP3s to soundcloud, stop it! SC does there own compression and conversion and the combination is seldom good. Listened to the dropbox, the cymbals were better. The vocal sounds very dry. Are you putting anything on a reverb bus? The snare sounds like there a lot of rimshots with a high nasty click to them. The fuzzy guitars are ok during the full-band stuff, but not on the intro, just automate some of the fuzz out for the intro, since you're using a sim.
 
mjbphotos said:
If you're uploading MP3s to soundcloud, stop it! SC does there own compression and conversion and the combination is seldom good. Listened to the dropbox, the cymbals were better. The vocal sounds very dry. Are you putting anything on a reverb bus? The snare sounds like there a lot of rimshots with a high nasty click to them. The fuzzy guitars are ok during the full-band stuff, but not on the intro, just automate some of the fuzz out for the intro, since you're using a sim.
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The next one will be a .wav - though I've read that it doesn't make a difference. I think Ray said it did for him though, so we'll find out.

Actually - hmmm. I just got a wifi extender, so I can do this from the "studio" room now. I'll upload the wav of this song to soundcloud and make it private. I'd appreciate any comments on the difference between that and the original upload (mp3).
 
Okay, I'm back home, and while I can't listen on my monitors this late, I am using my good headphones. I love the sound of this track when all the instruments are in. It's got that heavy yet smooth sound that I'm trying to achieve on The Bends but have no idea how. There is something just slightly funky (not the James Brown kind) about the intro guitar, though I don't really know how to express it or pinpoint what I would do differently. It just seems like it's a lo fi intro that leads into a smooth, slick mix when the other instruments come in. It's very slight, but I just feel like there could be a better tone for that intro. Not drastically different, just a tighter rumble, if that makes any sense. Maybe a slight effect or something (Uni-Vibe is my favorite). I'm not sure that's the answer, but that's what I'd try first.

Also, on this latest wav that you posted, the volume jumps up and down a couple of times in the beginning. I don't remember it doing that when I listened a few days ago.

Again, I really like this song.
 
paulman77 said:
Also, on this latest wav that you posted, the volume jumps up and down a couple of times in the beginning. I don't remember it doing that when I listened a few days ago.
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Man I hate that. It's a ridiculous glitch in my DAW (first thing truly not good about it) that occurs once in awhile. Here's what happens, sometimes:

I save the .song while in it and then open the included mastering suite. When I select the file to upload into the suite, it occasionally throws in a 5-7 db jump to the entire track at about the 10 sec mark which lasts for 5 secs. This happens once in every 30 attempts.

to the guitars, because i don't think i addressed them. they are doubled in the intro like they are throughout. i usually have 2 sets since i'm doing the same type of music - heavy and lead. they are both out R and L. For the heavy set, I use 4x12's and Dual or Trip Recs (amplitube) and for the lead sets, I use something brighter (i might buy Soldano. i have a trial for it right now, and it's awesome) through 2x12's. unfortunately, i mixed the track while listening to the all-out sections and by the time I got back around to the intro, neither set of guitars sounded particularly good soloed. I tried using one take and pasting it onto the other guitar, but that didn't sound good. So i kept the double take and went with the better sounding set in solo, the heavy guitars.

if i were more patient, i would create a new set and get them sounding good in solo. what i have now is fuzzy/dirty but would be better off smooth/glossy.

anything else different about the .wav? cymbals any better off?
 
Yes, I think the cymbals are better in the .wav. Less swishy, more in their place.

I might have to try out some of those amp plugins. Might sound better than running the Line 6 into a preamp. I'm still not getting what I want for a heavy guitar mix, and yours sounds great.
 
I listened to the Soundcloud link in the OP. That's the wav file now, right? The crash cymbals still swirl a bit for me. I don't know if it's better or worse than before. Have you tried taking the cymbals off the drum bus that you are sending to your compressor? Could be that the kick and snare are triggering your compressor and causing the cymbals to pump.
 
Okay, hmm. Maybe a little better. It's hard to tell the swell on those crash cymbals from the SC swirl. Listen to the very last part from about 4:10 on. It sounds to me like the attack on those cymbals starts closer to the center, then the swell and decay seems to pan outward. That's the kind of weirdness I associate with SC.
 
No matter what, I just need to mix the high end better. Unless that happens to even the most studio-quality recordings, it seems like it's exposing a weakness in my mixes. I like adding a slight top boost, and it really is not much, but if it isn't working then it isn't working. I need to do something about it. ..thanks for the all the listens.
 
andrushkiwt said:
No matter what, I just need to mix the high end better. Unless that happens to even the most studio-quality recordings, it seems like it's exposing a weakness in my mixes. I like adding a slight top boost, and it really is not much, but if it isn't working then it isn't working. I need to do something about it. ..thanks for the all the listens.
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I bet you could achieve what you are looking for by completely separating your cymbals from the way you are using compression on them now.
 
jimmys69 said:
I bet you could achieve what you are looking for by completely separating your cymbals from the way you are using compression on them now.
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the OH's are on a stereo track that I EQ and then compress. I set the threshold so that it only takes off db's (2-3) when the snare is the loudest. When just the cymbals are going, like when I'm riding on one of them, that track isn't compressed alone. There are a couple bus compressors, but the kick, snare, and vocals trigger it.
 
Listening to the wav on fairly dodgy equipment.

Glitchy volume swell in the first seconds.. looks like it's been mentioned. Intro guitar tone is pretty fizzy and brittle. I've heard that in some commercial releases so it could be intentional. My environment is not good, but the whole mix sounds a little dark and compressed.. cymbals sound a little mushy, and in a few places there's a tom hit ~1:25 that seems panned outside of the width of the rest of the kit.. umm, to the rh side(?) Playing all around sounds really solid, vocal performance is phenomenal, arrangement is very tight. Nice job on that stuff. Your voice reminds me of Jon Auer.. in fact you do sound a little like the Posies in general.
 
Hey thanks fleet. Yeah dark and compressed sounds about right. Still experimenting with the compressor on the mix bus. Unfortunately for me, or maybe fortunately, you guys get to hear every experiment good or bad. The feedback helps a lot.

I'm not sure if the dark is from the bass, guitars, or both, and I usually pull around 250 from everything and then a slight top boost across the mix. Like 1db at 6kHz on a slope. Then mix bus compressor is 1:7, fast attack, medium release, 3db max reduction.

Next track will hopefully be smoother all around. Taking my time on it.

Thnx
 
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