Lack of choruses

[Nola]

i just wanted to get opinions on songs that don't have choruses.

i have an album of like 10 to 12 songs i'm going to start recording next week, and i realized not a single one has a chorus. they just have "movement" from section to section and things like (dynamics, build ups) that but no chorus or bridges.

my girlfriend joked that i hate choruses. i don't consciously. this is just how things worked out i never had some anchor/chorus i wanted to come back to and always felt the song should be moving forward and building.

can anyone give their thoughts on this?
i was reading about it online, and people say that bob dylan and hendrix both rarely use choruses. i never thought about that or checked. i'll have to go listen.

 

[Greg_L]

My opinion on songs with or without choruses is....who cares? Write what you want to write however you want to write it.

 

[Robus]

I used to write a lot of songs without them, but I seem to have moved back in the direction of traditional song structure. The key is that there must be a hook, whether it comes in the form of a chorus or a refrain or something else. Of course, now that I've said "must" feel free to ignore this and all such rules. At the end of the day, the song must just song good. And at our level, it really only needs sound good to us.

 

[Farview]

Led zeppelin was famous for writing songs without choruses. It's not unheard of.

 

[Chili]

No rules in songwriting. If it sounds good to you then it sounds good. Don't worry about what other people think of your songs.

 

[miroslav]

A chorus isn't an absolute necessity if you can keep the song interesting throughout, and not let it get like a long run-on sentence.

I've done a few without...but I generally prefer writing with the chorus(es)...they break up the songs and give them more alternating dynamics.

 

[Xdrummer]

While there are many songs that don't have a chorus - in most songs and for most songwriters, the chorus tends to be the place where the "hook" lives. A song may not need a chorus, or even a "hook" but it is a rare song indeed that can stay interesting without a chorus/hook. Perhaps a clever arrangement can keep a song "moving forward" and hold interest - and only you know if your songs can achieve that.

Hendrix and Zeppelin created music that was interesting based on guitar solos (Hendrix) or arrangements (Zeppelin) and Dylan was a gifted lyricist who could keep a song interesting based on the story. Most writer's/musicians simply do not have the level of skill to keep a song interesting (let alone an album of 10-12 songs).

That being said, if you have faith in your songs and feel they are strong enough without a chorus, than write/record what you believe represents your vision.

 

[Nola]

While there are many songs that don't have a chorus - in most songs and for most songwriters, the chorus tends to be the place where the "hook" lives. A song may not need a chorus, or even a "hook" but it is a rare song indeed that can stay interesting without a chorus/hook. Perhaps a clever arrangement can keep a song "moving forward" and hold interest - and only you know if your songs can achieve that.

Hendrix and Zeppelin created music that was interesting based on guitar solos (Hendrix) or arrangements (Zeppelin) and Dylan was a gifted lyricist who could keep a song interesting based on the story. Most writer's/musicians simply do not have the level of skill to keep a song interesting (let alone an album of 10-12 songs).

That being said, if you have faith in your songs and feel they are strong enough without a chorus, than write/record what you believe represents your vision.

Thanks, X-drummer, for that thoughtful feedback.

Yeah, I didn't even notice since I wrote 12 songs like this, but then just looking back on them last night to fine-tune arrangements I realized none have choruses. They also have a lot of odd meters, even changing within the same song [which i didn't realize until i sat down to program the drums], so maybe things like this move them forward as you mention.

Maybe I'm way off with this, but I feel the further you get from 4/4 the more you can avoid choruses. I don't know if that's accurate, but a signature like 6/8 almost doesn't even lend itself to chorus and has more a drone/circular feel to me. I take it you are a drummer so maybe you can give input on that aspect. Thanks, x-drummer.

 

[Nola]

I used to write a lot of songs without them, but I seem to have moved back in the direction of traditional song structure. The key is that there must be a hook, whether it comes in the form of a chorus or a refrain or something else. Of course, now that I've said "must" feel free to ignore this and all such rules. At the end of the day, the song must just song good. And at our level, it really only needs sound good to us.

Did you change to writing with them consciously or just happened? I never think about any of that and just follow the chords and rhythm where they go, and they tend not to go to choruses. : /

ps. Robus, you say it only has to sound good to us. I'd like to make music that sounds good to others. Like a small following of weirdos would be nice. To me the reason to make music is to connect and move others, literally with rhythm but also all the other dynamics, etc. Otherwise i'd just write a poem.

 

[Btyre2013]

yep it doesn't need a chorus, just try and make it interesting and keep it creative, that's what really matters.

 

[Robus]

Did you change to writing with them consciously or just happened? I never think about any of that and just follow the chords and rhythm where they go, and they tend not to go to choruses. : /

ps. Robus, you say it only has to sound good to us. I'd like to make music that sounds good to others. Like a small following of weirdos would be nice. To me the reason to make music is to connect and move others, literally with rhythm but also all the other dynamics, etc. Otherwise i'd just write a poem.

Of course I want my songs to sound good to others too. That's one of the reasons why I've moved back in the direction of traditional song structures with hooks and chorus. I've become more of a purist--maybe just getting older. It wasn't always this way. I took a ten year hiatus from all music, and when I got back to it, I found that I had less tolerance for rambling arrangements, self-indulgent noodling, hookless tunes, lyrics than cannot be understood, etc.--which pretty much describes the music I was making in my 20s into my 30s. It seemed cool and avant garde to me at the time. Now it just sounds rambling, self-indulgent, hookless, and unintelligible.

 

[gecko zzed]

To me the reason to make music is to connect and move others, literally with rhythm but also all the other dynamics, etc. Otherwise i'd just write a poem.

There are two things you need to be able to do if you want to connect and move others. The first is to surprise your listeners, and the second is to comfort them. You achieve the first by being original and interesting, and by avoiding musical and lyrical clichés. However, if a piece of music is totally new and unpredictable, you run the risk of losing your listeners. Chorusses and musical or lyrical hooks are the way you give listeners something to latch on to. The trick is to get the right balance between new and familiar.

Hendrix and Zeppelin created music that was interesting based on guitar solos (Hendrix) or arrangements (Zeppelin) and Dylan was a gifted lyricist who could keep a song interesting based on the story. Most writer's/musicians simply do not have the level of skill to keep a song interesting (let alone an album of 10-12 songs).

Hendrix and LZ did as Xdrummer said, but the hooks in their music are readily apparent: "are you experienced? have you ever been experienced? well, I have", "whole lotta love, whole lotta love". Dylan,indeed, was a gifted lyricist. Though he wrote great stories, his songs abound with hooks: "the answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind", "the times they are a changing", "sad-eyed lady of the lowlands . . .", "hey mr tambourine man, play a song for me . . ." and so on.

Hooks are not called hooks without reason. They are the musical devices that connect a listener to a song.

 

[Jessica_X]

Sounds to me like you just have a personal style. That is something to aspire to, not run from. In my opinion, a good song will have a balance of variation and repetition. Not too much of either. So if you can achieve that without a chorus, great.