Kiwi cable kills more gear!!! (was Kiwi Ate Half of My DMP-3?)

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coloradojay

coloradojay

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My original post was at:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=207663&highlight=kiwi

Basically it says that I lost a channel in my DMP-3 and speculated that it might be the mic cable's fault.

So after running the cable tester again a couple more times, and verifying that indeed my DMP-3 had a bad channel, and reading a couple of "it couldn't be the cable" replies, I figured,

"hey, I need that cable in my rig to track drums, it probably wasn't the cable's fault, I should just get recording again and use it"

BAD MOVE!

I've now toasted channel 2 in my recently aquired Tascam 1884, and I'm pissed (and feel like a dumb-ass for not just tossing that cable in the trash).

After testing the cable again on my analog board, I found that I couldn't get signal with my condenser initially (yes phantom power was on), only with a dynamic. I noticed that the screw in the middle part of the mic side XLR connector had was a little loose, I jiggled the cable around a bit and !KA-POP! it started working again. I think that somehow phantom power may have shorted into the input and has now fried not 1, but 2 of my preamps, on two different pieces of gear!!! F*CK!!!!!!!!!

So now, I'm not sure what to do, should I send the cable to B.L.U.E and try to get them to hook me up somehow for all the damage it's caused? At least a new cable maybe? I've had the cable for over a year so I don't think there is any warantee at this point, and they really aren't legally liable, but I figure it might be worth a try if they want to keep me as a customer in the future. After I tightened that screw, the cable seems to work fine again, but I'm seriously considering whether I'll ever even use another piece of B.L.U.E. gear again. Maybe it should be called B.L.O.W. instead since it seems to blow gear up.

I've seen a lot of crazy stuff happen with electronics, but I didn't pay $40 to get a "higher quality" mic cable, to have it smoke my gear!!!

All that said, I'm only 90% sure it's the cable at this point, there is the off chance that either it's the 012 mic itself which intermittently smokes pres (which seems unlikely, since I'm still using it with another cable and it seems to work fine without blowing anything else), or maybe by some strange universal co-incidence I've randomly blown channel 2 on 2 different pieces of gear in the span of like 2 weeks.

What say you?

/endRant
 
I'd say you're SOL on this one (but it never hurts to ask)... They'll probably just tell you that you should be more diligent on inspecting and maintaining your cables... Doesn't sound like a manufacturing defect... just a set screw that backed off during regular use... not totally unexpected.

I bet the cable's fine now... but you may want to back off the sheild of the XLR and check to see if there are any stray wire strands hanging off the solder that could have shorted to the sheild. This would assure you that it's safe to use the cable... and actually build a legitimate case for restitution.
 
Kiwi

Call them! I own many of thier products, including eight of thier kiwi cables. Most likely they will take care of it, they are a great company. I know it's frustrating, but talk rationally to them and they will treat you right.
 
hey which KIWi cable was it? I have a green one, that the set screw came loose, and lost connectivity. The connector is a piece of crap. Luckily it didnt do any damage. There is a jumper connection between 2 pins, dont' remember which one now. Does this sound right> I never heard of a jumper between pins for normal operation. :eek:
 
Tonio said:
hey which KIWi cable was it? I have a green one, that the set screw came loose, and lost connectivity. The connector is a piece of crap. Luckily it didnt do any damage. There is a jumper connection between 2 pins, dont' remember which one now. Does this sound right> I never heard of a jumper between pins for normal operation. :eek:
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a green one, and the connector is funky. I always had to play with it a little at the preamp side to get it into the XLR too.

I'll pull it apart tonight and see what's up inside there. I don't know about the jumper thing, it's been a long time since I've worked with circuits, and analog in general.
 
Tonio said:
There is a jumper connection between 2 pins, dont' remember which one now. Does this sound right> I never heard of a jumper between pins for normal operation. :eek:
Click to expand...


In a Ballanced Mic cable the only Pins that might be Jumped is Pin 1 to the Case ground pin...Pin 1 is the Ground pin and Pin 2 is the signal wire and carries the Hot Phantom power wire and Pin 3 is also hot but of opposite Phaze and there is usually another Pin that goes to the Case ground....


Cheers
 
my kiwi does the same thing. at first i thought the prongs were bent or something. it seems the inside gets loose. i guess its poor quality control. they look expensive though.
 
I seem to remember the first thread on this topic starting with a statement about a band member yanking this same cable taunt to move the mic closer to the cabinet...
 
coloradojay said:
After testing the cable again on my analog board, I found that I couldn't get signal with my condenser initially (yes phantom power was on), only with a dynamic. I noticed that the screw in the middle part of the mic side XLR connector had was a little loose, I jiggled the cable around a bit and !KA-POP! it started working again. I think that somehow phantom power may have shorted into the input and has now fried not 1, but 2 of my preamps, on two different pieces of gear!!! F*CK!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

You can't "short phantom power into the input" with a cable. The phantom power is present at the input at all times. The worst you can do is ground out the phantom, but a properly built device should be able to handle that. It's a common failure case. Try a new cable, and if that doesn't work, send the Tascam back.

BTW, Phantom is on BOTH signal lines, not just pin 2. And yeah, it is common to jumper the shield to the ground pin. It's a good idea to do that in general. The only reason not to do it is if you are hooking up two pieces of powered gear on separate electrical circuits. In that case, grounding the shield is usually unnecessary and makes lifting the ground a bit harder if you need to do so... but for mic cables, you should always ground the connector's shield. Otherwise, when you plug two cables into each other, you have an eight inch long antenna/wave guide....
 
Do you have a cable tester? If not, I highly suggest you get one. A good cable tester will tell you exactly what is going on with the cable, and costs less than a new preamp (or two new preamps). :eek:

If it were me I wouldn't even *think* of using that cable again. Contact Kiwi and chances are they will want you to send it back so they can see what's going on with it. Don't take it apart yourself, because at that point there's really not a lot Kiwi could offer you as far as analysis of the cable or even replacing it.
 
A common way to fry pres is to plug or unplug cables with the phantom power ON ..... the phantom power should always ... always be off before plugging or unplugging mics. I'd be more inclined to think that's what happened. Like dgatwood said ...... phantom's always at the input.
It's true that very wierd things can happen with electronics but I would have no worries shorting out a mic cable any way it could be shorted ..... I just don't think that's what caused it.
I could be wrong but like I said ..... I'd take that cable and stick it in any of my gear without any worries that it'd do anything other than not work.
 
Lt. Bob said:
A common way to fry pres is to plug or unplug cables with the phantom power ON ..... the phantom power should always ... always be off before plugging or unplugging mics. I'd be more inclined to think that's what happened.
Click to expand...

Really good point.
 
B.L.U.E. Kiwi quad cables are warranteed for life, and are generally great cablws. I've got 12 of them. I have no doubt they'll replace the cable. As far as the fried preamps, your best bet is to return them to the manufacturers and say you have no idea why they don't work. They will likely, but not necessarily, repair or replace the units. Good luck-Richie
 
dgatwood said:
And yeah, it is common to jumper the shield to the ground pin. It's a good idea to do that in general. The only reason not to do it is if you are hooking up two pieces of powered gear on separate electrical circuits. In that case, grounding the shield is usually unnecessary and makes lifting the ground a bit harder if you need to do so... but for mic cables, you should always ground the connector's shield. Otherwise, when you plug two cables into each other, you have an eight inch long antenna/wave guide....
Click to expand...

K, so I opened up the connector and the shield is jumpered to the ground. Just for the heck of it I opened a Proco mic cable and there is no jumper. It has a nice Neutrik connector and is quite older than my Blue Kiwi and has never gave me problem. what s up with that?
Blue Kwi uses what Switchcraft connectors? i hate these. The set screw doesn't really hold the covering at all, you can twist it and is not setting anything?? WTF? I wonder how it lasted this long LOL
 
MOFO Pro said:
I seem to remember the first thread on this topic starting with a statement about a band member yanking this same cable taunt to move the mic closer to the cabinet...
Click to expand...

Yup, that is what happened, but I never dreamed that would be enough to fry hardware. It wasn't exactly like he yanked it, he just stretched it taught. I suppose if one of the connections pulled loose (or maybe that screw?), that could be the equivalent of disconecting the hot pin with phantom power on, but the phantom power still works on both units (the Tascam has the phantom sectioned into 1-4 and 5-8 and they're all good), phantom is still good on the DMP too.

Ya live and ya learn. Hopefully this thread saves someone else a preamp channel in the future. I am going to contact BLUE to see if they'll at least replace the cable, but you may likely see a pair of these cables (one new in the box) for sale in the classified section soon. Similare to Tonio, I'm kind of feeling like these cables where supposed to be nice but are really kind of ghetto.

Richard Monroe Pro said:
They will likely, but not necessarily, repair or replace the units. Good luck-Richie
Click to expand...

As for the DMP-3, I may just keep it and use it as a DMP-1.5. I highly doubt M-Audio would do anything for me as it's about 3 years old now. I think I may rather have a second VTB1 or a pair of something else rather than fixing or replacing it at this point, $80 loss tops. The Tascam, I bought second hand a few weeks ago, and I emailed the guy I got it from who said he got it second hand himself over a year ago (one year warantee spent). I will probably call Tascam and see what they say anyway because it would be realllly nice to have channel two back on my board. If it's going to be more than $100, with these boards going for under $700 used now, I may be more inclined to just add some more inputs via lightpipe or SPDIF rather than getting the onboard one fixed (and being without my board while it's in the shop).
 
coloradojay said:
As for the DMP-3, I may just keep it and use it as a DMP-1.5. I highly doubt M-Audio would do anything for me as it's about 3 years old now.
Click to expand...

Why not send it to M-Audio for a factory repair? They will probabbly quote you a fair price and the techs would probably be interested in the circumstances surrounding the failure. Your location might even have conditions placed upon the warranty that grant you remedies above and beyond the published warranty---which by the way, is no longer included in full with the unit. Since you have to read the complete terms of the warranty on the internet, there may be additional leagal issues---but the best approach would probably to ask for a fair assessment and repair.

Finally, and I say this with love, don't you just want to smack yourself for testing out a "lethal" piece of equipment by using on a second "victim?" Get a cable tester.

Good luck,
Paj
8^)
 
Tired of being a helpless victim of cable failure and cable overpricing? Learn to build your own cables. Actually you don't have to learn how to build the cable, you just have to learn how to solder the pre-made cable to the desired connectors. Cost less than half what you pay for the Kiwi, even if you are using high-quality Mogami and Neutrik.
 
Reggie said:
Actually you don't have to learn how to build the cable, you just have to learn how to solder the pre-made cable to the desired connectors.
Click to expand...

LOL@Reggie
 
i just checked the 7 kiwi cables i own. every single one had loose or backed out screws. this is not from use as some of them are just back ups sitting in a bag. poor quality ! i did find several cable makers on ebay using canare and mogami cables and nuetrik connectors for good prices. im too lazy to solder. they also come in several cool colors.
 
Just stopping in, and thought I'd clear one thing up. The cable checked out fine through my ART "CableCop" cable tester. There was just something that was getting funky when it was at a certain angle in-situ. I moved it around quite a bit while it was plugged into the tester and it all looked good. Still I'm pissed that I wasn't more suspicious of the cable. Everyone who responded to the other thread was thinking it was highly unlikely that it was the cable, as I was.

Oh well. There will be more boards, more pres, and more cables. I still plan to contact BLUE to see if they'll at least hook me up a replacement cable. The DMP will probably have to wait until I'm done tracking drums for my current project, as it's doing a fine job on my kick drum at the moment.

-J
 
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