Kick my ass!! Please!!!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Shaky Tee
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Shaky Tee

Between being and nothing
I resang and did some tweaking on my song "Ballad of Phoolan Devi".

I've discovered how to do use some of the DirectX and VST effects within N-Track, and I've been able to make some of the tracks within the song sound really cool.

Then come my vocals.

I redid my vocals this afternoon, doing each verse over and over and over again. It sounded good without the reverb and all that. Once I added all the reverb, compression, etc. it SOUNDED LIKE SHIT!! (Damn! do I sound pinched, off key or what!).

I've been having vocal issues btw. I can't seem to sing much without something catching in my throat, and leading to me breaking out in a coughing fit. So, it took me two hours to get this vocal take down.

Anyway...I nead some ideas on how to fix this, how to sing this. I'm kind of in a rush because I'm entering this song in a contest, and the drop dead date for me is 9/15. So, no suggestions on vocal coaches, getting someone else to sing, et. al. Thanks. :)

Hi Fi

Lo Fi

Download
 
OK!

I am putting on my steel toed Doc Martins.

Bend over and prepare to be kicked in the ass!

Of coarse, if you made the links to the music actually click-able, I will take them off.

Cheers! :)
 
I remember this tune.

Your vocals sound much better this time around, especially pitch-wise.

If they sound better to you without the plug-ins why use 'em? You should only use 'em if it makes it sound better.

Plug-in rule #1: No improvement, no plug-in.;)

One of the best tips I ever got for singing is to make yourself yawn. As you yawn hit a note (doesn't matter what note just relax, and hit one). Take note of how your throat feels as you come out of the yawn, and into the note. This is how your throat should feel whenever you're singing.

In Mr. Miagi voice: And always remember breathe: very important!

:D

Edit: Almost forgot: you don't want me to kick your ass. I wear size 11 steel-toes.:eek:
 
Thanks man!!

I used the same plugins on my lead vocals this time around as I did the last time. I also think I may have equed the file to death.

Yawning...that's always the first thing I'm instructed to do when I meet with a vocal coach, and it's always the last thing I remember to do...hehehehe!!
 
Dang, this is a huge improvement over the last thing I heard from you. Really. You've been making some massive progress here.

I like the way the vox switches between the more verby and more dry sound. You know, I actually can't find much to nitpick with this. Your stuff is so idiosyncratic that you neatly avoid comparisons with other similar sounds.

Did you loop the "this body's not for sale" part? I hear a very slight pitchiness each time and it sounds like the same exact place.

Cool tune. And fun to watch someone grow the way you have.

Chris
 
hey Groucho!! Thanks!!

yeah..."This body's not for sale" is looped. Actually, the only vocal I redid was the verses. That, to me, sounded the worst of all the initial vocal run throughs I did iniitially.

I didn't sense a sligtht pitchiness issue in that part, but well...sometimes, my ears are not the best! :)
 
I too hear some pitch issues. If they go away without the verb, try mixing it that way. I had another thought about why, though. That patch you are using that sounds like flutes or maybe shakahauchi sounds like it may not be in tune with the rest of the track, thus giving your ears false pitch info as you are singing.

As for the song, I like it--I remembered it from my listening some time ago. Its different, memorable and I love the rave section in the middle. Its definitely got a cool hook and sound, and the track is really well put together.
 
small ... grain ... rice

now feed all of village :D

Crazy people in little box play many wild instrument to loud ... ahh sooooooo

we come back, more later
 
This is interesting. Haven't heard it before. Unusual vocal, on second listen I'm really starting to like it. The 'E' fuelled rave section is a blast, totally unexpected. I don't get to hear much of this sort of stuff, but it sounds highly original. Well done
 
Great song! Nicely arranged, too - love the tempo change.

The handclaps weren't working for me - kind of an 80's drum machine vibe. If you have time to track some live claps, that might be better. If they WERE live, try recording from farther away or something - and vary the clap technique.

Your voice is great for this song, but the pitch seemed off - vocals a little sharp maybe? I had some luck with autotune's automatic mode - you might give that a try (free 10 day trial - I've retracked most of my vocal tracks in that time - artifacts are minimal, generally pleased with the result - check my Dr. Demento thread if you want a listen).

The chant vocals were a little up front for the amount of verb - made for a moment of confusion when the lead came in drier. I think if the chant were farther back in the mix, that would work.

In the real thick parts of the mix, some vocs seem to have an almost hissy quality - helps them cut through, but it's overdone, IMO.

Your song is a great concept, and I love the arrangement - you're 95% of the way there. Nice work, Shakey. Absolutely no asskicking required.

OTOH, if you think you might need a spanking...:eek:

:D

Daf
 
Jesus let me get down from the ceiling! I just hit the middle of yout tune - it reminds me of....I can't say that here (but it sure was FUN!!!)

Man this is a 1000% turnaround. I'm gonna go listen again. I'm diggin' this vibe. Oh that was cool - your voice came into center from the sidelines. (real-time critiquing here - this tune is fun)

What is so cool is the fact that you're getting the pitch issues under control - there are still some there but it's obvious you've been working. I'm not having a lot of issues with this because this tune is - unique. And I don't ever say that!

Cool b/g vocals - cool instrumental stuff happenin' all over the place. L-o-v-e that rave!!!!!!

Very nice work!! - This one's a keeper for me.
Milan
 
The handclaps are just to synthetic, you must track some real ones please, although I like the compositional idea it can give it a 'tribal' feel and the pipes are doing that well ... Real claps would put this song into a different 'class'. And the claps should be very dry, as if they surround Phoolan outside. If you did 'different claps' as one poster has already suggested, you could even move them around in the stereo field, which would give us the aural picture of them moving around her in a circle. Also, outside there would be no reverb on the tribes clapping.

The chant compositional idea is really cool, very effective, it really knits the whole piece together as one piece of musical fabric, and you effectively alter the reverb and delay on the chant throughout the piece.

At 1:08 if you have the resources to decrease the volume of 'this body's not for sale' this last time it repeats before the 2nd verse comes in, that would be very effective. It could serve as a listener's cue.

At 1:44, this little thumb drum with running 1/16th's, mix that back at the almost inaudible level, without some sort of carefully crafted groove based on the volume of each of the hits it's going to get frusterating for the listener.

At 2:12 IMHO what you are doing is really fantastic, I"m laughing, I'm grooving, but it's out of character for the piece ... lol ... you a nut i like to crack ...

Now I'm going to get very personal here.

When I was two years old it became clear to my mother and father that something was different about my speech so they took me to a speech pathologist. By the time I was three I had made some real progress, but I had some serious auditory discrepancies. I am NOT saying you have auditory discrepancies.

When they tested my hearing, I could hear the tones far below the audible level of anyone they had encountered. I could hear higher in pitch and lower in pitch than anyone they had ever tested, I could hear the quietest tones ... and they were mystified.

I had very acute hearing, but my brain could not synthesize what I was hearing into the speech that I needed to communicate. Maybe I was taking in to wide a spectrum of sound.

I used to love to stand near bird feeders ... ;)

It took me a while to 'sort out' what I was hearing and put labels on it that were effective so that I could translate what I was hearing into good language production skills.

Now ... I cannot stop talking :D , and I love to speak and sing in other languages, it fascinates me. What B. SABBATH does really appeals to me. What you do at 2:12 is pretty cool ... it's a 'no rules' type of music, an orgy of sound, and I like that, it actually makes a lot of sense to me !

As I listen over, and over, and over to Phoolan Devi, I'm enjoying that more and more. I wanna boogie with ya baby.

I have intonation problems when I sing and I really work harder on singing in tune than any other part of my music. My singing always sounds pleasing to me, until I listen back to it on a recording, and then my little world caves in :D !

I practice with a digital tuner, by singing gentle long tones into the digital tuner. When I do this, it is not as much an issue of trying to keep the little needle on center of the pitch, it is a practice in listening to myself. If the needle shows I am singing sharp, I listen to the tone as best as I can hear it, and work it gently and slowly by letting it rise infitessimally above and below the center pitch ... I examine it and what I am hearing my voice do.

Just like I know to substitute the word 'ja' for 'yes', in order to speak german, we all need a reference as to what is 'the pitch' when we are singing. But for some of us, that can be a complicated issue.

We are built a little bit like speakers. We have cavities in our body that resonate when we sing. If you peeled your lips over your head, and continued like a bannana until your head was inside-out and your vocal chords were sticking up totally exposed like some wierd flower on the end of a stalk, singing would sound like a duck call ... like a quacking duck ... a pinched ballon, there would be no resonance, but there would be a pitch and you could still 'sing in tune'.

When you put the head back over the vocal chords, the cavities in the head ring or resonate with your singing, they color the sound. When you sing into a digital tuner, the digital tuner hears very little of these 'resonant head overtones', it hears the exposed vocal chords, and that's what you really need to hear to sing in tune well.

Your ears are encased in and surrounded by a bunch of resonant material, and they hear not only those 'exposed' vocal chords but they hear all the other stuff also. You can 'learn' to listen to false information and ignore the actual chords, and when you learn that, your reference is hidden from you, it is intellectually hidden from you, the brain filters it out.

With practice and hard work, you can zero in on those 'pure vocal chord pitches', you can pick them out of the chaos of all the reverberation going on in your head.

Also, it is not only the cavities that reverberate, it is your teeth, which color the highest of the frequencies and the bones in your head which will color the mid-range. Ancient man often used the human skull for a drum, and yes, it does have a skin tightly stretched over the 'drum head', so the analogy is clearly here.

Get a digital tuner and sing long tones, this will help your tremendously.

Your ear is also bombared with many external influences as well as what is going on internally that can trick the brain into changing the reference and thus your brain will be fed inaccurate pitch information. It is not that you are unable to produce sounds that are the pitches you want them to be, it is that you are having difficulty sifting through all the sounds you are hearing, and using the accurate relations of those sounds to finally produce the sound you want.

And this phenomenon in your singing is very, very slight, but I know you can sense it, and some of us can hear it.

And it is an extremely complicated process. Sometimes, no amount of practice will 'fix this' if you are not practicing with the proper tools. Your computer, just as it has given you the tools to produce this really cool musical work, it has some tools to assist you in learning to use your voice in a more western and rigidly pitched manner.

Great opera stars are revered and idolized for a reason, and yes, some of them can do it 'easily', it comes natural to them. For some of us, even simple speech itself is hard work, much less the incredibly complicated act of 'singing'.

Remember, Beethoven was deaf as a doornail, and he sang horribly out of tune and you rarely see that in print, but it is true. Beethoven sang badly out of tune all his life, and that is why he was so driven to produce his huge symphonies, chamber music and all sorts of stuff, some believe, in compensation for his inability to make his singing machinery work like he wanted. Beethoven chose a fixed pitch instrument, the piano for a reason ... By the time Beethoven started to 'go mad', Beethoven believed the great singers were 'beneath him' and he was very arrogant with the great singers ... because he could not hear them, thus he had no respect for them ... or anybody else at his latest stages in life.

What Beethoven heard in his mind was always perfectly in tune, and that is not true for everyone. ya see, when I peeled Beethoven's lips over his head, well ... I jumped into his brain for a while :D !

But Beethoven did not have a digital tuner.

I know a deaf person, a completely deaf person, that sings in tune in a local choir, and sings well.

How do they do it ? Hard work, and yes, they trained with a tuner, an orb-strobe tuner, the old fashioned kind we saw in the orchestra and band room in school. They look into and listen internally to cues in their own body, and they take cues from the skin and bone vibrations, and the vibrations they feel in their heads ... but they must have a reference, and that reference for most of us is our unaided ear. The digital tuner can substitute for the ear until you build up a 'translation base'. This deaf person I am telling you about claims she can see the orb-strobe tuner while singing with the choir, like a hallucination ... hear that B. SABBATH ... it's good shit !

I think if you got a tuner and did this you would have a 'EUREKA' with your voice, I think you would have an epiphany of understanding with your vocal machinery and I really urge you to do this. But I think you already have a digital tuner buddy ...

Helen Ready is a great example of this, Helen didn't always sing in tune either, it took her years and years of listening to herself after recording herself in the studio to realize what to do with her body to sing better in tune, and I think that is part of what you are doing with your recordings.

You can speed this up dramatically by working with a digital tuner. You can 'go to 2:12' now by using the digital tuner.

There are some good digital tuners you can download ... your laptop has one probably in the software you record in ... and it's all alone ... sad and lonely ... you can be it's friend.

This section that ends at 3:15, you come out of it really cool ... like 'breaking the placenta' I love it ...

You could make a fantastic music video out of this.

I don't wanna meet Phoolan in a dark alley !

You MUST remember while you are reading my prattle, that I am extremely critical and highly analytical of pitch in general, anytime I hear anything it comes under my scrutiny, because those are the very crutches, the tools, that I hear with and I am constantly seeking to reinforce my 'translation base' myself.

My overcritical and overanalytical ear is a product of my own weaknesses.

Good luck with your practice.

Phoolan is a WINNER composition.
 
Hey this song is very very interesting so far. I wasn't expecting it. That's a very good thing.

I gotta play this for my girlfriend, she'd love this too.

Awesome groove.

Wasn't expecting that change around 2:15 either. Awesome!

Wow...great stop! Loaded with great surprises.

Do I have to get critical? I don't want to. Nothing is bothering me so why bother? It's too unique for me to get all nitpicky. I enjoyed it thoroughly. I don't rate threads. I'd like to see the rating system removed in fact. But I'd give this 5 stars.
 
can't kick nothin, ya did too damn good. :)
Id turn up the vox and let it take more dominance and let er rip......
Great work on the music and vocal ideas.
:cool:
 
Um... wow. This is NOT what I expected when I clicked on this link. If it's possible to die and go to heaven twice in two days, then I have done it. Damn.

The point where you come out of the dance section with the "ow" kind of thing. That gave me chills.

I honestly can't find much fault in this. Prior posts made it sound like you were terrible, but I can't believe that this song was ever terrible. So avant garde. So sexy. LOVE the Asian-sounding accent in your voice. This is Bjork meets Devo meets Lords of Acid. Which is a kick-ass combination.

Your song has rocked my world. And I hate dance music. :-)

I hear few problems with the mix. The vocals are a bit bright in the dance section. Stabbing my ears a bit.

Great keyboards there, though.

I don't hear many in-key vocal issues, honestly. Maybe that's why my vocals suck. :-) Any little "odd" sections actually sound like they belong, given the style of the song.

I could listen to this a lot. I'd love links to some of your other stuff. Thanks for posting! This was bona-fide awesome.

Piltdown Man
 
WOW!!!

I really thought I was gonna get pelted here!!

Thanks everyone!!

Studiovols, I knew I could count on you for some specifics and suggestions! I actually have started working with a sound module when I do my vocal warmups. This Friday, I'm also going to see a ENT specialist r.e. my voice/coughing issues.

My singing always sounds pleasing to me, until I listen back to it on a recording, and then my little world caves in

HEHEHE!!! hear hear!! Preach on!!!

I'll have to find the digital tuners you discussed. Sounds cool!

Anyway...I'm probably going to follow some the advice here (r.e. reverb fixing, killing the brightness on some of the vocals - hey!! Maybe I'll go download that demo of Autotune and try it out for the hell of it), and then submit this song to the contest.

In the meantime, I'm seeing that ENT specialist. I'm hoping it's nothing serious. Wish me luck!
 
Shaky........i did't know what exactly to expect w/ the drum intro........bongos then a synth beat.....good job to keep the ears guessing way into the song......i like that..........good vocal too
 
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