kick drum: replacement, or eq?

  • Thread starter Thread starter captions87
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Greg_L said:
Now who's being arrogant?

For the record, I didn't say you, or anyone else, is wrong for doing what you do. Do whatever you want. I just don't want n00bs stumbling on to crazy ideas and thinking that's how it's supposed to be. I'm merely providing a viewpoint that focuses more on recording fundamentals instead of relying on heavy-handed processing and DAW trickery.
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You're still the one being arrogant my friend. and i forgot "insanity" is right!! and you dont need to look after them with my posts, i already do that.. if you read my original post, i mentioned that this is not THE way to do it, not the best way or the only way.. its just something worth trying if possible.. and i understand your trying to show recording fundamentals, but your stuck on this idea that what im talking about is "heavy-handed processing and DAW trickery".... there's no trickery and very little processing in what im talking about haha.

make a valid point, i bet of you.
 
Then we clearly have different definitions of what is and isn't a lot of processing. What you described earlier is a lot of processing and trickery to me. 3 kick tracks with multiple EQ's and compressors being bussed all over the place and blended with MIDI tracks is a lot of shit for one kick drum. It's sad to me that this has become almost the norm. Again, if that's what you need to do to get a usable kick drum sound, then rock on. I'm saying it doesn't have to be that way.
 
Greg_L said:
Then we clearly have different definitions of what is and isn't a lot of processing. What you described earlier is a lot of processing and trickery to me. 3 kick tracks with multiple EQ's and compressors being bussed all over the place and blended with MIDI tracks is a lot of shit for one kick drum. It's sad to me that this has become almost the norm. Again, if that's what you need to do to get a usable kick drum sound, then rock on. I'm saying it doesn't have to be that way.
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If your as good at tracking as you are putting words in my mouth and ignoring what i say to try to drive your point home with arrogance then i may aswell stop trying to argue.

yet i'd still love you to pony up your tracks of 1 mic with no EQ or compression please.
 
children, children, please. no just kidding, but i think there has been a bit of confusion in the question i've been asking, so i'll try to clarify without offending anyone or starting another 4-5 page tangential debate:

-i'm not a n00b, although i am by no means an expert, i'd say i'm almost an advanced intermediate.

-unfortunately, i do not have access to any preamps, hardware compressors, or anything that would help me "sculpt" the sound of the kick/drums on the way in. alls i got is an akg D112, a mogami cable, and a firestudio project.

-the base tone for the kick that was recorded, is very close to where i want it to be. i just wanted to accent the attack of it, without taking away any of the boom and making it sound too ticky.

-i am aware that eq is probably the first place to start, and that is the first place i intend to start with it to bring some of that attack out, BUT...

-like i said before, i don't want to take away any of the 'french kicks' style boominess that i love and want to utilize in at least most of the songs. that is why i brought up the possibility of using a sample, perhaps one that has an exaggerated amount of punch and click, and blend it in behind the original, so that i wouldn't have to sacrifice one tone quality for the other. now, in this area(drum triggering/replacement), i am a complete n00b. but logic's drum replacer/doubler seems to make this pretty easy to achieve.

-i do dig the idea of having, as an alternative to a og/sample duo, make a copy of the kick, and eq that to hell with the frequencies i want to bring out, and just cut those out of the original, but leave intact or even accent the low tones i want, so i can try to get the best of both worlds, and since i'm still using the original recording, perhaps it would sound more natural than using a sample?

all that aside, i really appreciate all the input that everyone who has posted here has given. it's definitely given me more than a few ideas and i feel like i'm getting the info i need to get what i want.
 
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Compression will bring out the attack. Just choose one of the basic comps in your daw, and set the attack slower than normal to let the attack through. Play with your attack and release to seewhat you like. EQ may help but this is what compressors are made for. You don't need fancy equipment. The basic EQ and comp in your daw will do.
 
I like running my 21 kick drum tracks through about 17 different compressors :)


:laughings:
 
captions87 said:
Just finished recording for my band's new EP and upon first listening of the tracks, I've noticed that the kick drum has a bit of a boomy tone to it.
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Back to the original post, It is always better to sort out the kick sound at the recording stage, if the sound is not right, take the bull by the horns and help the drummer tune the drum, dampening in the kick if required, even remove the front head if need be, and / or cover the kick with a blanket. If I get a kick drum in that sounds wrong (for the type of music we are doing) I will change it around. Sometimes the drummer complains but most of the time they are only too interested in improving the sound. I always record the drums with no eq or anything else for that matter, however I then monitor the drums and play with the eq a little on the monitor side of the signal chain to see if the sound is working for me as you usually have to apply a little eq, the less you have to do the better it is. This is the lesson to learn for next time.

To fix the kick sound now you may need to work on the eq as I suggested before, check out the eq on the overheads as this effects the kick sound a lot, you may have to shelve the lows. Look at gating the tom mics if there is a lot of kick mush there. Try patching a 31 band graphic into the kick channel and cut around the 200hz-250hz even 120hz if it improves the sound, also look at the mids, 500hz, and add life by boosting the 2 to 4khz area, just see what works. Don't do this soloed, check it with all the drum channels up. If you need compression to keep the kick in the mix, try something drastic like ratio 10:1 quick attack slower release, then maybe gate the kick after the compression to clean up the ring. Just try things out. I am sure that you can get a usable kick sound from this recording. I record drums all the time and often with other members of a band playing in the studio with them, with bass and guitar amps blazing, I do this as the feel of the song is important and nothing is better than a band in full swing, so I have to really watch out for the drum sound.

Most of the stuff I have found works over the years is from trying to fix up a bad recording that has happened for some reason (not always my engineering), by trying out drastic techniques and trying out things that should not work, the best lessons are learned.

Alan.
 
captions87 said:
children, children, please. no just kidding, but i think there has been a bit of confusion in the question i've been asking, so i'll try to clarify without offending anyone or starting another 4-5 page tangential debate:

-i'm not a n00b, although i am by no means an expert, i'd say i'm almost an advanced intermediate.

-unfortunately, i do not have access to any preamps, hardware compressors, or anything that would help me "sculpt" the sound of the kick/drums on the way in. alls i got is an akg D112, a mogami cable, and a firestudio project.

-the base tone for the kick that was recorded, is very close to where i want it to be. i just wanted to accent the attack of it, without taking away any of the boom and making it sound too ticky.

-i am aware that eq is probably the first place to start, and that is the first place i intend to start with it to bring some of that attack out, BUT...

-like i said before, i don't want to take away any of the 'french kicks' style boominess that i love and want to utilize in at least most of the songs. that is why i brought up the possibility of using a sample, perhaps one that has an exaggerated amount of punch and click, and blend it in behind the original, so that i wouldn't have to sacrifice one tone quality for the other. now, in this area(drum triggering/replacement), i am a complete n00b. but logic's drum replacer/doubler seems to make this pretty easy to achieve.

-i do dig the idea of having, as an alternative to a og/sample duo, make a copy of the kick, and eq that to hell with the frequencies i want to bring out, and just cut those out of the original, but leave intact or even accent the low tones i want, so i can try to get the best of both worlds, and since i'm still using the original recording, perhaps it would sound more natural than using a sample?

all that aside, i really appreciate all the input that everyone who has posted here has given. it's definitely given me more than a few ideas and i feel like i'm getting the info i need to get what i want.
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Hey man... so yes, reinforcing with a kick and blending it in the mix to get a click sound is certainly an option and a very easy one at that (kind of what i was saying before :P) .. but anyways... if you EQ it properly you wont get rid of the good sounds you want... just in logic just try this, if you dont like it, then take it out... give a slight boost around 3 to 4 khz and tell me if that solves your problem.. if it doesnt, then just take it off :) simple as that.
 
Bisson820 said:
If your as good at tracking as you are putting words in my mouth and ignoring what i say to try to drive your point home with arrogance then i may aswell stop trying to argue.

yet i'd still love you to pony up your tracks of 1 mic with no EQ or compression please.
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It's funny how you do the exact thing you accuse me of. You can't read, or just make stuff up. I never said I don't use EQ or compression. I just don't go overboard. One of each is plenty. Get your head out of your ass and go back and re-read the thread.
 
Greg_L said:
It's funny how you do the exact thing you accuse me of. You can't read, or just make stuff up. I never said I don't use EQ or compression. I just don't go overboard. One of each is plenty. Get your head out of your ass and go back and re-read the thread.
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Greg... the only reason why i said you didnt is because you called it over processing when i said that i did... so one would assume that means you dont.

and 1 EQ is fine.. yes.. but the upside to my method of EQing to cut first, then compressing and then EQing to boost instead of just doing 1 EQ of cutting and boosting is this...

when you compress the signal after you cut the frequencies you dont want it doesnt compress them...

THEN after the compression is done, if your still not satisfied, you can bring up the other EQ to boost the frequencies you want to be pronounced and your only effecting the already compressed signal so there is no way for the compression to mess with the boosted frequencies.

the only difference between what i do and what you do is i dont want to compress the cut frequencies.

Im not going to argue with you about this anymore... if your EQing by boosting and cutting on 1 plug-in then thats fine ... and my method only does the same amount, it just splits it into 2 categories...

your original post of calling it insane is foolhearty and i've had enough of this.
 
If that's what you need to do to get a usable kick track, then maybe you should work harder on the source. It's a kick drum, not brain surgery. That's all I'm saying. Shame on me for keeping it simple. :laughings: :laughings:
 
what i do with it is extremely simple.

but people work within their own mental capacities.

good talk Greg.
 
Bisson820 said:
and you STILL wont put up a sample.
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You pretend to be a smart fella, try to figure it out. :rolleyes:

Let me tell you what's gonna happen:

"Your music sucks!!!!!!!!! Your drums sound shitty!!!!!!!!"

I've heard it all before from the other internet crybabies before you that got offended by my posts. :laughings:
 
How anything is processed is just a matter of what's needed or not needed. Greg's drums sound alright because they are in context with the music. His drums would sound like shit on other genres.

No need to call the wahmbulance over it, I didn't see anything offensive about what he said.

Besides, who gives a fuck what Greg has to say. :laughings:
 
+1 to sillyness. Though I do occasionally likes me some Devil Lok to dirty up drums. :D

Plus one good eq works much better than multiple crappy sounding stock ones. :)
 
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