kick drum mic (sm58 no good?)

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wes480

wes480

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Hey, i have a Yamaha YD series kit...not the most expensive thing in the world..but, i think overall it sounds ok. The kick drum though...i am not happy with the sound I am getting. I guess it sounds alright when i stick my ear down there...but, the SM58 is not giving me a useable track at all.

So, is the SM58 my biggest problem? Or are there some good tricks to make a kick drum sound better? Any good tuning tips? Should I cut a hole in the front head? Or take it off completely? I am looking for a nice thick thump..for rock music. just something I can get a good dry track with..and adjust later.

I saw some people posting about the Audio Technica Pro 25 (http://www.8thstreet.com/Product.asp?ProductCode=4854&Category=Microphones). How would that compare in sound to a Shure Beta52...it's like a third the price obviously. I want to invest in something that will sound good for a while..but at the same time...I have a limited budget, like everyone here for the most part ;)

thanks for the input.
 
Hey,
First off, I'm pretty sure that when people talk about the Audio Technica Kick Mic or "ATM-25" they don't mean the Pro25. I have the ATM-25 and it rocks, but I was warned about the Pro25 and told to go with the ATM-25. The ATM is still a good $50 cheaper than the Beta 52. I think the pro25 is like their cheapo model. I can see where people can get mixed up. (or maybe I am) Anyway, as for your 58, a very small movement in the distance the mic is from the kick can make a big difference. Try taking off the ball, it might help or you can try taking off the outside skin, etc. What is the problem woth your sounds in the first place relative to what you want it to sound like?

Ian
 
the sm58 with the ball off should be able to give you a usable sound at least.....like greg mentioned, play with positioning.....

also at $60, the PRO25 is a decent enough mic for kick......
 
The PRO 25 will definitely work. I was using a RE-20 on kick and I found that I liked the PRO 25 better! I guess it kind of depends of what type of kick sound your looking for though. I try to use the mic that works best for the song without the use of EQ. That way if I do need to EQ the kick, it won't be some crazy drastic curve!!!:eek:
 
If you dont put the 58 inside the kick you are not going to get much of a sound. Take off the front head or cut a hole so you can the mic a few inches away from the beater. Your not gonna get great bass out of the 58 so you might as well make sure you are getting good attack with the beater.
 
yeah - i guess I definately need to get the thing inside of the drum. One problem I am facing is getting "all" beater...and no bass really. Havn't played too much with how that sounds in the mix. I guess i will be cutting a hole in this thing then....how big of a hole is customary, and what is the best location for said hole?

Also - what should I stuff it with/how? I had a whole sleeping bag in there once...and it didn't sound good...then i had just a pillow in there...and, still doesn't sound too good. hehe. Should I put the padding materials just up against the head the beater hits...or should I try to get it around the sides, etc?
 
The hole is usually about 6-8inches off center. Basicly big enough to get a mic and a boom arm in there and still be able to adjust it properly.

As far as padding, experiment and see what works.

You might want to try adding a sampled kick sound on top of your drums if you cant get a better kick mic. The 58 is a vocal mic so dont expect too much.
 
www.mp3.com/thelazy

This is not my band, but I've chatted back and forth with the guitar player, who recorded this. He used a 58 on the kick on probably all these tracks but at least on 'Doesn't Matter'. Sounds good to me. Download 'Doesn't Matter'; it's a kick-ass song.
 
UMMMM.....yeah it definitely sounds like he used a 58 on the kick!!! YIKES!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:
 
Wes,

You may also want to check out the AKG D112 to mic your kick. It's great for low end and won't stray under high SPL's. I agree with the other replies about changing the position of the mic but you may also need to retune your kick for recording. Live vs. recorded tunings are generally done differently it's not a bad idea to experiment with that as well.

-b
 
Kick Example

You can almost use any mic for the kick, but it is all about positioning and what type of sound you are looking for.

This song was recorded using a cheap AKG D440 mic. We are experimenting with differant micing techniques, so let us know what you think.



particle@krellen.com
 
AKG D112

Check out this example of an AKG D112 on the kick.

It's kind of a long song, so just be patient.

 
One important thing to remember about the 58 is that it was primarily designed for live vocals. Why is this important? Cuz live vocal mics usually have some bass roll off to offset the proximity effect.

With that said however, you should be able to get a "useable" track using an SM-58.

First of all, get as good of an acoustic sound as you can from the kick. Only muffle the head as much as you need to! The most I'd ever use is a pillow. Probably no more. Just lay it flat in the drum so that the long, skinny edge of the pillow is touching the beater head.

With the 58, get the mic pretty close to the beater head (use the proximity effect to your advantage). Like 3 inches and turned slightly off axis. You'll have to experiment a little (or a lot), but hopefully that'll be a decent starting point.

Remember that the fundamental pitch comes from the center of the head. The further out you go, you'll get more overtones. So keep the mic close to the center.

A compressor will help, and definitely don't be afraid to make drastic EQ tweaks.

Here's a track I recorded years ago while in college and had no money and had to use a SM-57 (essentially the same mic) on the kick drum of a crappy cheap drum set. Do I love the drum sounds? NO. Is it useable? Definitely. I think we took the fromt head off completely.

Check out "Aisles of Smiles" http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/11/clydes_ride.html

-disclaimer- I did the tracking but not the mixing.
 
Tuning

Dont forget about the tuning of the kick....alot of people tend to over dampen their kick. they fill the drum up with blankets and tune it really high. I am not a drummer, but the best sounds get are when i take off the front head and loosten the other one off alot. then i usually add a small amount of damping, like a pillow pushed against the head. i keep the mic quite abit back from the beater, on center. i find this technique allows alot of air to move, but some drummers dont like their kick so loose.
 
Hmmm...I have used an Sm57 and got pretty nice results. I did eq it though. Take a listen



As far as a good bass drum mic goes, if you search long and hard you may be able to find a Peavey 520i for about 120 bucks. It is a very good kick mic, and resembles and RE20 in sound characteristics. So I have heard anyway. My friend used to use one, but now uses and RE20. Anyway, for that price I would say give it a shot.

Beezoboy
 
AT Pro25

rtzstudios said:
The PRO 25 will definitely work. I was using a RE-20 on kick and I found that I liked the PRO 25 better! I guess it kind of depends of what type of kick sound your looking for though. I try to use the mic that works best for the song without the use of EQ. That way if I do need to EQ the kick, it won't be some crazy drastic curve!!!:eek:
Click to expand...

I also swear by the Pro25. Take the ATM25 and the Pro25 screens off and look at the element. Look identical to me.

I have 3 Sennheiser 421's and I use the Pro25 right inside of the hole and it works great. *th street music has them in a bag for $69.00. I may get me a few more.

Wild Phil Harmonica
 
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