Keyboard for piano?

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DunderXIII

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It's problably been asked before but here goes. I want to (re)learn to play the piano (like I did as a kid). But I already have all the electronic equipment necessary to generate the sound (Mac G5, Logic with EXS24 patches etc.) so I am really not looking for anything having a sequencer or patch interface. Basically a controller would do. I have an Ozone, but 25 keys is waaay too few.

I'd like to (re)learn classical, but would not stop myself from playing jazz or pop. The eternal question is, which keyboard and/or controller could fit the bill? Should I look for 88 keys like on a real piano (otherwise I could come at a loss when practicing some songs)? What about key weight and price? Oh, something that would would work well in Logic too ;-)

Thanks
 
If you are fine with just using a controller than a real keyboard with its own sound banks, all the power to you. You can get a nice contoller at half the price you could spend on a fully fledged keyboard.

It mostly depends on how much you want to spend. When I went down this path 5 or 6 years ago, I started off with a $100 Casio crap keyboard, inherited a 88 key fully weighted Korg Digital Piano of the 80s, and last year bought a semi weighted Kurzweil board/controller.

If you're really serious about it, I suggest getting an 88 key controller with weighted keys. Semi-weighted are nice and easy to play, but offer far less resistance than what a piano can give.

Yamaha is known to have the best keyboard action on their keyboards and controllers.
The old Yamaha KX-88 is supposedly the best MIDI controller they made (back in the 80s). It can still be found on eBay for a good price, (around $100 last time I looked), but it is very heavy and a bit cryptic. Christine McVie (of Fleetwood Mac) has used this controller since 1987.

Their newer Stage Pianos are supposed to be pretty good too, but they're the whole deal and definitely cost well over $500.

Here is a link to zzounds.com's 88-key controller listings.
I'm sure there's something in here that would work fine for you.
http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/cat--88-Key-Keyboard-Controllers--3604
 
Thanks a lot! I actually bougth a Yamaha P60 today because well, I'm a bit impulsive when I've done enough research :p . The seller actually talked to me about the KX-88 too, but I'm not too fond of ebay because I've been screwed twice buying crap that weren't worth what I paid.

It's not a pure controller, its got speakers and a couple of piano patches, which is fine for practicing. Still with a midi-out it does what I want ;) and the touch is actually pretty darn good. I know, a pretty good pianist tried it.. my mother :) lol. I think it's gonna be good for learning the piano.

Thanks for the help!
 
Cool, you guys actually talked about the KX88 . I am looking to get back to play piano, and been looking as well. I was looking for an KX88 to use with an EMu sound card and soft synths. I have been also thinking of Kurzwell PC2X. Last time, the KX88 went for Around $700 for one in excellent condition. Is this worth that much ? I haven't seen it, just read about it .. . Could someone comment as to why it is still worth that much ?
 
I think considering, you made a wise choice. Now you're not tied down to your computer.

I'm having a really hard time deciding what my next keyboard should be. I did want a PC2X (to replace 2/3rds of my current setup) but I'm waiting for a refund check so I can buy it and sell my current gear and have no period where I'm out a board.

The new Nord Stage 88 looks incredible to me though. [drools]
 
Alexbt said:
I think considering, you made a wise choice. Now you're not tied down to your computer.[drools]
Click to expand...

Darn how those these words ring true today! ;) The graphics card on my iMac broke down yesterday and it's on repair for a week or two. I'm stuck with my old PC. bleah :p
 
Those Yamahas are really good. I use a P120S from time to time, and have an old Clavinova as my main piano for playing 'classical' music on at home. Well done for getting back into it - get a hold of the C minor 'Pathetique' sonata by Beethoven for a really impressive showpiece that won't take a million years to get to grips with. :)

Nik
 
noisedude said:
Those Yamahas are really good. I use a P120S from time to time, and have an old Clavinova as my main piano for playing 'classical' music on at home. Well done for getting back into it - get a hold of the C minor 'Pathetique' sonata by Beethoven for a really impressive showpiece that won't take a million years to get to grips with. :)

Nik
Click to expand...

the pathetique is Amazing. i managed to get it to a 'pretty good' standard about six months ago... that big C minor chord at the start...

but then my next trombone exam came riding over the horizon, and i completely forgot about the piano...

Andy
 
andydeedpoll said:
the pathetique is Amazing. i managed to get it to a 'pretty good' standard about six months ago... that big C minor chord at the start...

but then my next trombone exam came riding over the horizon, and i completely forgot about the piano...

Andy
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I'm there - I balanced piano to grade 8 with flute and drumkit to grade 7 ... but now I just noodle on my guitars and let my skills rot!!!! :)
 
Adobian said:
someone reccommended this to me today also. I read the reviews:

http://www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/CME/UF_8-1.html :
Click to expand...

Keyboard Magazine reviewed it back in April and had no complaints about the action:

http://www.keyboardmag.com/story.asp?sectioncode=30&storycode=7780

"The action is weighted, and the keybed feels really good: just the right amount of resistance on key-down and “bounce back” on the release. The key-to-key consistency is spot on too. Hitting a key with the same subjective dynamics produced the same velocity value."
 
I'm a beginner to piano/keyboard, and am interested in purchasing an 88-key full-weighted midi controller keyboard for personal use with soft synths and stuff.

I have a few questions:

What does aftertouch mean?

what keyboards are around $500 max?

what keyboards allow me to change patches with a button?

How is the m-audio keystation 88? I heard something about the black keys going beneath white keys, is that true?
 
I started the thread so I'm really not the best to answer your question, still here's what I found out about some of your questions (and mine :D).

In terms of action, the Yamaha keyboard just kicks ass. Its even better than some real pianos (I'm really getting up to my old speed and tried a few real pianos afterwards ;)). The thing is, mine (the P60) only has 10 instruments and they are chosen by a "shift-piano key" type of input (you press a "voice" button then a piano key).

If you're talking about patch selection on a controller then it depends on the buttons that are on the controller. Since its a controller almost every button should be remappable in your software (they will each sent a different MIDI message), so you probably can assign any patch to any button. On that though, I am talking out of experience with the Ozone (which only has a couple of rotary buttons), not the Keystation. There are several versions of the Keystation, one has no buttons (no patch selection on keyboard) and the other lots ;-) I heard its pretty good, but it doesn't have a piano action.

Aftertouch (correct me if I'm wrong) allows you to vary the pressure of the key after its been played. In MIDI terms: there's a "note on" with a velocity (the key went down), then there are lots of "aftertouch" messages that say "current pressure is 200lbs! current pressure is 200.2lbs!" and when you're done you get a "note off". This allows a sound module to vary the sound while the note is depressed. For a straight-up piano that doesn't really make sense since what triggers the sound in a real piano is the hammer hitting the strings. Once the strings vibrate you can't alter it other then mute it ("note off").

If you're not really into pure piano action (which I've now become :P), from what I've heard so far the Keystation Pro is a winner but I personally don't know. Of course you can always look for a used KX-88 ;-)
 
DunderXIII said:
I started the thread so I'm really not the best to answer your question, still here's what I found out about some of your questions (and mine :D).

In terms of action, the Yamaha keyboard just kicks ass. Its even better than some real pianos (I'm really getting up to my old speed and tried a few real pianos afterwards ;)). The thing is, mine (the P60) only has 10 instruments and they are chosen by a "shift-piano key" type of input (you press a "voice" button then a piano key).

If you're talking about patch selection on a controller then it depends on the buttons that are on the controller. Since its a controller almost every button should be remappable in your software (they will each sent a different MIDI message), so you probably can assign any patch to any button. On that though, I am talking out of experience with the Ozone (which only has a couple of rotary buttons), not the Keystation. There are several versions of the Keystation, one has no buttons (no patch selection on keyboard) and the other lots ;-) I heard its pretty good, but it doesn't have a piano action.

Aftertouch (correct me if I'm wrong) allows you to vary the pressure of the key after its been played. In MIDI terms: there's a "note on" with a velocity (the key went down), then there are lots of "aftertouch" messages that say "current pressure is 200lbs! current pressure is 200.2lbs!" and when you're done you get a "note off". This allows a sound module to vary the sound while the note is depressed. For a straight-up piano that doesn't really make sense since what triggers the sound in a real piano is the hammer hitting the strings. Once the strings vibrate you can't alter it other then mute it ("note off").

If you're not really into pure piano action (which I've now become :P), from what I've heard so far the Keystation Pro is a winner but I personally don't know. Of course you can always look for a used KX-88 ;-)
Click to expand...

thanks for the info. I'm really into the piano action. I've been taking a piano class at school this semester and I am digging the piano and how it feels/sounds. I want a keyboard now because I listen to a lot of progressive rock/metal that uses a lot of that.

Do you guys know of any yamaha midi controller that is 88 keys-piano action, pitch/mod wheel, and has midi mappable buttons, and that isn't more than around $500?
 
bball_1523 said:
Do you guys know of any yamaha midi controller that is 88 keys-piano action, pitch/mod wheel, and has midi mappable buttons, and that isn't more than around $500?
Click to expand...

Doesn't exist.
 
Mine (the Yamaha P60) cost 1000$ CDN, but it doesn't have all the bells and whistles you wish. For a piano action controller many suggestions were made in this very thread, I suggest you look up those.
 
bball_1523 said:
th
Do you guys know of any yamaha midi controller that is 88 keys-piano action, pitch/mod wheel, and has midi mappable buttons, and that isn't more than around $500?
Click to expand...


Does the KX88 have a pitch wheel ?
 
brzilian said:
Keyboard Magazine reviewed it back in April and had no complaints about the action:

http://www.keyboardmag.com/story.asp?sectioncode=30&storycode=7780

"The action is weighted, and the keybed feels really good: just the right amount of resistance on key-down and “bounce back” on the release. The key-to-key consistency is spot on too. Hitting a key with the same subjective dynamics produced the same velocity value."
Click to expand...


I tried the M-Audio 88 weighted keys and its horrible, Wondering how the CME compares.

This review was done from a guy who didn't use a weighted keyboard and really wanted to have one.
 
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