Keeping 2 tracks in proportion to each other......

[RAMI]

I'm not even sure if my thread title is worded right.

I have a question about raising or lowering tracks and keeping them the same volume relative to each other.

So, for example...Let's say I have one track at -3db, and the other track at -6db. If I lower the first rack to -6db, would I lower the second track the same amount (3db) to -9db? Or would I lower the second track to -12db, which is half of -6db since originally the second track was -6db which was half of -3db.

Am I making any sense with this question?

 

[Bristol Posse]

For real or is this a friday afternoon chain yanking?

 

[RAMI]

I'm serious. Why?

I should have worded it better. The reason I'm asking is because I'm looking at it this way: For example, if I have a 10lbs weight, and I take 5lbs away, I feel a big difference because I just cut the weight by 50%. But if I take 5lb away from 100lbs, it's not that noticeable because I only cut it by 5%. So, I'm wondering if it's the same thing with volume. Is cutting 2 tracks by the same amount always going to keep them in proportion? Should I be looking at db's or percentages?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Simple addition and subtraction works with dB. Lower them both by the same dB even if they don't start at the same level. Decibels has the proportion built into the unit.

 

[RAMI]

Simple addition and subtraction works with dB. Lower them both by the same dB even if they don't start at the same level. Decibels has the proportion built into the unit.

Aweomse. Thanx. That makes life easier. Often, when I read someone giving the advice to "turn everything else down", I always wonder if simply pulling everything down by the same amount of DB's is really that simple. Glad you understood my question.

(sorry, I edited my previous post while you were typing).

 

[Bristol Posse]

Just seemed like an odd question from a man of your experience

but as boulder soundguy said, since it's a logarithmic scale that is referenced against the original power of the track and a dB has no value without a point of reference to measure it against, you can reduce them both by the same amount and they will stay in balance

 

[RAMI]

Just seemed like an odd question from a man of your experience

but as boulder soundguy said, since it's a logarithmic scale that is referenced against the original power of the track and a dB has no value without a point of reference to measure it against, you can reduce them both by the same amount and they will stay in balance

Yeah, I sort of knew the answer before I posted, but I needed some affirmation. I'm not very technical in my knowledge, so I didn't know if there was a math "equation" that I wasn't aware of, etc....

 

[Washburn100]

Gets me thinking?
So if I walk into a brick wall, it hurts. If I run into the brick wall I get a concusion. So I guess brick wall injury must be logarithmic. Well, the only way to know for sure is to do the experiment. BRB

 

[Bristol Posse]

Gets me thinking?
So if I walk into a brick wall, it hurts. If I run into the brick wall I get a concusion. So I guess brick wall injury must be logarithmic. Well, the only way to know for sure is to do the experiment. BRB

I think this would be more a scale of hurts (or should that be hertz)

just make sure you don't push into the realm of Killer Hurts

 

[Washburn100]

I think this would be more a scale of hurts (or should that be hertz)

just make sure you don't push into the realm of Killer Hurts

LOL: very good,
Well when I came to, I reread my notes and the experiment was a complete success. Science has unequivically proven:

"A brick wall limiter causes can cause serious damage, use with caution"

Got me thinking about side chain compression. What happens if you have a brick wall limiter, but use multi-band compression in front of it. Well there are train tracks in front of the wall I'm using. BRB

 

[Stereo Steve]

I wondered about this concept some time ago and did this little experiment. One fader was set at say -6db and the other at say -3db, link them together and observe that when I move one, the other will move but at a different rate. I presumed this is Cubase's way of keeping the ratio constant? Maybe there's a setting that will alter this constant or keep them linked identically? I don't know but it sounded OK when they moved at the different rates...

 

[RAMI]

I wondered about this concept some time ago and did this little experiment. One fader was set at say -6db and the other at say -3db, link them together and observe that when I move one, the other will move but at a different rate. I presumed this is Cubase's way of keeping the ratio constant? Maybe there's a setting that will alter this constant or keep them linked identically? I don't know but it sounded OK when they moved at the different rates...

Yes! That's what got me wondering about this whole thing.

I didn't do the same experiment as you. But what I noticed in REAPER is that the faders jump in different sized increments depending on where the fader is to begin with. For example, if the fader's at 0db and I scroll to bring it down, it will go down in small increments (O, -.01, -.05, -.12...or something like that. It takes about 10 scrolls to get to -1db.). But if the fader's at -10db and I scroll down, it will go from -10db to -11.5db to -13db, etc....so the jumps are much bigger if the fader is lower. This lead me to believe it might be compensating for proportion somehow or another.

 

[miroslav]

On my DAW (Samplitude)...the numerical difference between faders when linked stays the same no matter how low/high.
If they have a 3dB difference...it remains 3dB at all settings. If it's a 20dB difference, it remains 20dB at all settings...though of course, if one fader hits the top/bottom and you keep moving the mouse, then you upset that differences, however, when you come back, it will pickup up the other fader at exactly the original difference they had.

I think the actual change of motion from one end to the other (fader jumping VS moving in small increments) simply has to with the logarithmic scale of the fader. The lines from 0dB to -3dB are a lot further apart than when you are at -30dB and trying to go to -33dB. So while you may be scrolling at the same rate, the fader appears to move at different rates.

 

[Chili]

If they have a 3dB difference...it remains 3dB at all settings. If it's a 20dB difference, it remains 20dB at all settings...though of course, if one fader hits the top/bottom and you keep moving the mouse, then you upset that differences....

Do you mean Total Protonic Reversal???

 

[c7sus]

Yeah, gang the busses together.

 

[aaronmcoleman]

In Reaper they don't always move the same. Weird. I just did an experiment and highlighted all of the tracks and lowered one 6dB, one moved less than 4dB, one moved the same 6dB, and another moved about 8dB. Strange. I understand the logarithmic representation of decibels, and that they should all move the same. But they don't in Reaper and it sounds fine to me. I don't really get it.

But, I'll still highlight them all and move them together in the future because it sounds fine.

Could this possibly be some sort of setting in my preferences, or what the meter is actually showing?

 

[RAMI]

In Reaper they don't always move the same. Weird. I just did an experiment and highlighted all of the tracks and lowered one 6dB, one moved less than 4dB, one moved the same 6dB, and another moved about 8dB. Strange. I understand the logarithmic representation of decibels, and that they should all move the same. But they don't in Reaper and it sounds fine to me. I don't really get it.

But, I'll still highlight them all and move them together in the future because it sounds fine.

Could this possibly be some sort of setting in my preferences, or what the meter is actually showing?

Weird. What's even weirder is that I just tried the same thing, and they DID all move the same amount. I had one fader at 0db, put another one at -5db, one at -8db, and one at -12db. Highlighted them all, and moved the top fader down 6db. They all moved down 6db along with it.

 

[aaronmcoleman]

Hmm. Weirder and weirder. Ill mess with it later today. It sounds fine, but a -6db change to one track doesn't translate to a -6db change on all. I have reaper pretty stock so I doubt I changed to some weird setting. Interesting. Great question too, sometimes the most basic stuff gets overlooked.