Just ordered VF-160CD, now questions

[teainthesahara]

yes, i would tend to agree....

jeff0633,
you know what, i was just write almost everything you just did
in your previous post...but you beat me to it!!!

One great thing about the VF machines are their adaptability; they can fit into alot of different recording situations and budgets. Similarly, there are also several different ways to accomplish the task of moving music between the VF and a computer - the ONLY thing that makes any method better than another is how it fits into your situation and meets your recording needs (while staying in budget, of course!). ADAT, SPDIF, JAZ, USB, external HD's, CDRW - all have their place, and NONE of them can be really said to be significantly better or worse than the other without prior knowledge of someones recording situation and what really fits their goals.

I've been using the VF16 machine for a while now, 'conjoined' to a variety of PC's, and I've used a number or the options listed above - and in my experience, none stands upon a pedistle when compared to the others in all situations. To any newcomers to the VF machines, or people who are thinking about purchasing one, I hope you don't get the impression that you MUST have an ADAT with digital wires running to and fro from your PC for the VF to be of any use of to be of 'optimum' use. That would be a misconception!

Lately, I've been using the JAZ drive with an older laptop to transfer audio to do some work. Other than being dirt cheap (25$US), the drive has several positive attributes as outlined by Jeff. In addition, with the right adapters, the drive IS hot-swappable (e.g. the USB adapter, or the much cheaper PCMCIA adapter), and is simplistic to use. I guess what im saying is that all of these options have their positives and negatives - but in the end, if you pick what matches your situation, - the whole thing sums to be a zero issue (But damn, that USB transfer concept straight outta the mrx is a cool idea!!!).

Jeff: the Jaz is very econimal and fast to transfer stuff, but even though you can pick up 1gig disks on ebay for (5-8$), it becomes expensive if used solely for back-up purposes. Dont be afraid to use those CDRW's to the MAX - they are built for it!!!

T

 

[PeteHalo]

If you want to take advantage of all the features that a PC/VF combo can offer there's no substitute for ADAT. Sorry, guys but that's the fact no matter how you try to twist it. There's nothing and I mean nothing that you can do with scsi that you can't do using adat and a audio sequencer software but using ADAT you can do plenty that the scsi is not capable of no matter what. There's just no way that you can connect VF to computre using scsi that allows you to use the VF as analog front end for the computer DAW and that's the most powerful way to utilize the VF in a computer based home studio. But if you prefer playing with scsi stuff and let the most powerful feature of VF go to waste then that's perfectly fine with me. I'm just telling people how to get the most out of their gear.

 

[teainthesahara]

If you want to take advantage of all the features that a PC/VF combo can offer there's no substitute for ADAT. Sorry, guys but that's the fact no matter how you try to twist it. There's nothing and I mean nothing that you can do with scsi that you can't do using adat and a audio sequencer software but using ADAT you can do plenty that the scsi is not capable of no matter what. There's just no way that you can connect VF to computre using scsi that allows you to use the VF as analog front end for the computer DAW and that's the most powerful way to utilize the VF in a computer based home studio. But if you prefer playing with scsi stuff and let the most powerful feature of VF go to waste then that's perfectly fine with me. I'm just telling people how to get the most out of their gear.

Hi Pete,

You seem to be a really good reference and experience source for some of us who might be less experienced/new to the VF machines using ADAT enabled hook-ups to comps, and that is cool. You’ve identified some powerful features and ways to use the VF, and it can’t be anything but good to let people know what those things really mean – the manual that comes with the machines obviously don’t really clue anyone in on the possibilities. Even though I agree with you on much that you say about your set up of choice, I find your claims of what is best, or best for all to be shortsighted…maybe shortsighted isn’t the right word…..BIASED…that could be the right word!!!

For you to really think that other people’s setups and solutions are a “twist” or a “play-like’ attempt or substitution for what you perceive to be the ‘most powerful feature’ of a VF/comp combo definitively demonstrates that bias. I’m kinda new around here, but even in this short amount of time, I’ve observed you to blindly recommend the VF/ADAT combo while diminishing other, just as workable solutions, without having any significant knowledge whatsoever about that persons recording needs or situation! I mean, come on, that is supremo biased, and that kind of bias isn’t often the basis of sound advice!! And as far as your configuration of choice being the most ‘powerful’, and to not utilize it would be a ‘waste’; hmmmm….are you really saying that you can’t think of any situation where no one would lament the absence of a VF/ADAT a set-up? Do you really think that all of the VF user’s with a computer that don’t use such as setup, do so because they are ignorant of it’s existence or it’s advantages? Can you not believe that people make alternative decisions over the VF/ADAT regarding these set-ups because they have found that it meets their needs to the letter? What could be more powerful than that?

T

 

[jeff0633]

Good point, but it goes further than that. Pete seems to be doing something totally not NEEDED. Why would anyone buy a VF, only to use it as a front end for computer recording? He could have gotten a M-audio 10-10 for the same amout of money. I have also named numerous things that the scsi Jaz route offers that the adat doesn't, yet Pete has not commented on these things. Pete please answer these things.

With your adat card. YOU CAN ONLY TRANSFER * TRACKS AT ONCE!! With the jaz, I can transfer 16 tracks at once.

You need to hook a midi cable up to the VF as well, and also you must have a sequencer just to keep the first 8 tracks in sync with the next tracks. With the scsi Jaz, I don't have to do any such thing. All 16 tracks will automatically be in sync as soon as I put them in my editing program.

You MUST record your 8 tracks in real time, and then do your next tracks in real-time as well. Not me and my Jaz drive. I can do all 16 tracks at once, and far faster than you, cause my jaz drive is as fast as a normal hard drive. Ever load up a wav file in your editing softare, Pete? Well, that how fast I can load them from my Jaz disk, just as if I were loading them from any other hard drive in my system, and the VF sends the tracks to the Jaz just as fast a it sends them to it's own drive. This means I can send 16 tracks far faster than you can probably even send 8 tracks. You have to setup your midi sync too, and record as you send. Not me, I simply load up the wav files from the Jaz just as if i were loading them from my normal hard drive.

I can backup VF format song/program files right to the Jaz disk, and then load them over onto the computer for almost limitless storage. I don't think you can backup VF format songs using adat, can you? Then, i can put them back on the Jaz disk and load them back on the VF with all scenes and effects settings in tact, and ready to work on again.

I can take my Jaz drive with me, and use my printer port adaptor, and even move songs from the VF over to anyone elses computer too, fast and easy. So, while on location recording, if they have a computer, I can setup cooledit on their computer real quick, transfer some tracks through their printer port, and edit tracks till the cows come home while right on location. When I'm done, I uninstall Cooledit, and unhook my Jaz from the printer port, and i'm done, all while being away from my computer. To sum up, You said that there is nothing hat the scsi can do that the adat can't. I have given several things to prove this statement wrong.

scsi 16 tracks at once to computer, adat can't.

Scsi all wavs in sync, adat can't without help from a midi cable and a sequencer.

Scsi, far faster, adat is real-time slow.

Scsi, mobile, adat not, unless you want to take your PCI card out of your computer and install it at a client's computer with drivers and everything.

Scis, backs up VF format songs with all scenes and effects/pan settings intact, and they can be restored to the VF just as you left them. Adat, cannot.


There are probably numerous other advantages that I would be able to think of. So far, you have come up with using the VF as a digital mixer, so that you can record straight to the PC. I say, why not save a few hundred and buy a digital mixer, or a multi input souncard? is the VF not good enough quality to record your vocals? I still can't see any REASON to do what your doing with it. Scsi Jaz drives have it all over the adat option in almost every area from what I see. In fact, my Jaz drives have even made the built-in CDRW almost meaningless. I am kind of upset that I didn't buy the far-cheaper VF-16, and just get me two jaz drives. The Jaz drives do all the same stuff if you use your computer burner for adio CD's, and the Jaz is even far faster than burning backups to CD, or transfering wav files. I guess i will still use my built-in drive to burn audio CD's for other folks when I am on location, but that's about the only thing I will be using it for. Maybe I should sell my Fostex burner.

Have a good one.

Jeff


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Pete,

You seem to be a really good reference and experience source for some of us who might be less experienced/new to the VF machines using ADAT enabled hook-ups to comps, and that is cool. You’ve identified some powerful features and ways to use the VF, and it can’t be anything but good to let people know what those things really mean – the manual that comes with the machines obviously don’t really clue anyone in on the possibilities. Even though I agree with you on much that you say about your set up of choice, I find your claims of what is best, or best for all to be shortsighted…maybe shortsighted isn’t the right word…..BIASED…that could be the right word!!!

For you to really think that other people’s setups and solutions are a “twist” or a “play-like’ attempt or substitution for what you perceive to be the ‘most powerful feature’ of a VF/comp combo definitively demonstrates that bias. I’m kinda new around here, but even in this short amount of time, I’ve observed you to blindly recommend the VF/ADAT combo while diminishing other, just as workable solutions, without having any significant knowledge whatsoever about that persons recording needs or situation! I mean, come on, that is supremo biased, and that kind of bias isn’t often the basis of sound advice!! And as far as your configuration of choice being the most ‘powerful’, and to not utilize it would be a ‘waste’; hmmmm….are you really saying that you can’t think of any situation where no one would lament the absence of a VF/ADAT a set-up? Do you really think that all of the VF user’s with a computer that don’t use such as setup, do so because they are ignorant of it’s existence or it’s advantages? Can you not believe that people make alternative decisions over the VF/ADAT regarding these set-ups because they have found that it meets their needs to the letter? What could be more powerful than that?

T

 

[PeteHalo]

to Teainthesahara: If there's powerful features that one don't take advantage of then I consider that wasting at least some of the full potential of the gear. And more so if one buys additional gear to achieve something that they are fully capable of using the gear they already possess. And using adat there's definetly plenty of useful things you can do that you can't possibly do with scsi but there's only one little thing that you can't do with adat and that's to save a VF song with all the settings. And once I have the tracks on my computer I have absolutely no need for those settings as I can do all the rest on computer.

 

[teainthesahara]

to Teainthesahara: If there's powerful features that one don't take advantage of then I consider that wasting at least some of the full potential of the gear. And more so if one buys additional gear to achieve something that they are fully capable of using the gear they already possess. And using adat there's definetly plenty of useful things you can do that you can't possibly do with scsi but there's only one little thing that you can't do with adat and that's to save a VF song with all the settings. And once I have the tracks on my computer I have absolutely no need for those settings as I can do all the rest on computer.

Hi Pete,

I agree with you in the strictest, most defined sense that if someone chooses not to use some feature on the VF, or anything for that matter, one could say that that feature was being ‘wasted’. However, this type of ‘wasting’ is immune from value judgments! You seem very reluctant to accept that not using a feature does not necessarily have any bearing on efficiency, utility or the ‘power’ of someone’s set up that makes it better or worse upon comparison – you can only make such assessments if you know the context of how that equipments gonna get used, and by who! We could argue SCSI Vs. ADAT until the cows come home, but really, from my perspective this stuff is supposed to be a means to an end. And if I reach that end with MY music, what does it matter, for example, that I moved my tracks over to the VF with a SCSI or an ADAT? Or if I recorded to my computer directly or if I didn’t ? The positives and negatives of each method have been so overrated/underrated with added melodramatics to be ridiculous…..

…..If get a super sports car with an anabolic developed injected engine, and I cruise it up and down the strip….and get some developing attention from the opposite sex (he heh )….did I waste the car? It’s very much a subjective question, isn’t it? Depends where you put your priorities, does it not? So how can you presume to tell someone what is the best way to use their gear without any idea of what their situation is or what there priorities are? How can you be so sure that since ADAT works good for you, that it will work that good for everyone else?
T

 

[blewispunk]

Simultaneous = Separate?

Hey all,

I'm a bit new at this game and I just picked up a FD-8 for a great deal and now am wondering if I should take it back and spend a bit more for a VF-16. The main thing I'm looking to do is record my whole band in real time, so 8 track simultaneous recording sounds good to me. I just want to make sure that I am clear on the simultaneous recording. My fd-8 manual says it can record 8 tracks simultaneously, but it can only record them to two separate tracks. Can the VF-16 record all 8 tracks to 8 separate channels?

Thanks,
Brent

 

[theletterq]

Yes the VF16 can record 8 channels to 8 tracks.

Haven't we beaten this ADAT vs SCSI thing to death? You both make valid points, while Jeff does seem to make more sense. By the way, I have never used my PC with my VF160 other than to duplicate the CD's I've made from it, and I in no way consider it wasted. 16 faders for 16 tracks (these days, what a concept) is worth the price of the unit alone. I will be getting in to MIDI with it here shortly, but that's another story.....

 

[jeff0633]

Re: Simultaneous = Separate?

Hey all,

I'm a bit new at this game and I just picked up a FD-8 for a great deal and now am wondering if I should take it back and spend a bit more for a VF-16. The main thing I'm looking to do is record my whole band in real time, so 8 track simultaneous recording sounds good to me. I just want to make sure that I am clear on the simultaneous recording. My fd-8 manual says it can record 8 tracks simultaneously, but it can only record them to two separate tracks. Can the VF-16 record all 8 tracks to 8 separate channels?

Thanks,
Brent

It sure can record 8 imputs at once to 8 different tracks. It is a great machine from what I see so far. In fact, I am blown away by this machine. You can easily stick a huge hard drive in it, the options are numerous for getting your tracks over to the computer for editing, so don't worry about getting the VF-16 without a burner. Get an adat input to the VF, and you can record 16 tracks at once. I am stunned at the options this unit has for the future. I have owned the Roland VS890, VS-840GX, Tascam 788, and the BR8. Never have I seen the likes of this machine.

Jeff

 

[Artpop]

Jeff -

I'm a total newbie to computer recording, but have been reading your posts with much interest.

I have a VF-160 and will soon be moving an older computer from my office to my music room and would like to be able to move files from my VF-160 to the computer as individual tracks to mix down and master.

I think I would like to go the Jaz drive route, as it seems the simplest (i.e. the easiest for me to understand!); what would you recommend I get, equipment-wise and software-wise (for mixing and mastering)? I have recorded in a studio with my band using Pro Tools, which I know is prohibitively expensive, but that's all I have as a software reference!

Thanks again for all of the great info in your previous posts!

 

[jeff0633]

Jeff -

I think I would like to go the Jaz drive route, as it seems the simplest (i.e. the easiest for me to understand!); what would you recommend I get, equipment-wise and software-wise (for mixing and mastering)?


Thanks, and sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I have been playing out a lot lately. All I can tell you is what decided to do. I went for two Jaz drives. That way, all you have to do is opo the disk out of one, and pop it into the other. For the computer side, I got an internal jaz and scsi card for around 30 bucks. get the 2940 series scsi PCI cards for the computer. Windows XP finds and automatically installs these cards, and they are scsi 2, so they are fast. My internal is as fast as a hard drive. Then get an external for the VF. The normal 50 pin cable that goes with the jaz drive will plug right into the VF, no adapters needed. It's really that simple.

As for editing, I use Cooledit pro. It is great for mixing.

Have fun.

Jeff