Just ordered VF-160CD, now questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter jeff0633
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I was merely referring to the fact that you need to be close to your computer to backup the recorded tracks to it. Armed with the 25 minutes (divided by the 8 tracks gives a whopping 3 minutes per track) of track time that a 128MB card offers you need a laptop if you want to record out of the house.
 
It still goes back to what you need, and how you record. True, if you are tracking vocals remotely and are working on several songs at once and want to keep multiple takes, several harmonies, etc., then space might get tight on an MR-8 with any card. On the other hand, what about one song and one instrument? I recall reading that Kansas spent a week in the studio just getting the guitars on "Dust In The Wind" recorded - the thing I'm working on now requires similar care be taken with the acoustic guitar and I find the MR-8 goes everywhere my guitar goes. Yes, I've collected some good takes and eventually archived them to computer, but I have also spent considerable time away from the computer working on arrangement and performance - with the MR-8 'practice' turns into 'recording'.

Not to say the same thing couldn't be done with any recorder, but in my experience the equipment "pain threshold" is very low - if something is a bother it just doesn't get used.
 
I have been recording to my PC for three years and I have grown
sick of the software problems, the clicks, the blips, the expensive
plug-ins. After upgrading to Win2K and facing with a $1000 dollar
bill to upgrade soundcard and software I am going the PC less
route as far away from Bill Gates' Evil Empire as possible.

So I have been comparing the MR8 with the VF80. I don't really
understand why people think the VF80 is so difficult to use.
If you just want the MR8 functionality it is just as easy to use.
The effects on the VF80 are an entire century ahead and it is
difficult to believe the same company makes the MR8.

Musiciansfriend sells the MR8 for $299 and the VF80 for $499.
If I buy an MR8, a 256MB card and a preamp so I can use a
condenser microphone I am paying more than 500 bucks and I
still have only about ten minutes of eight track time as opposed to several hours and the preamp to lug around. The VF80 has
built in phantom power. Heck for $699 I can get a CD burner built
in, and I may just forget about Windows for good.

No more clicks, pops, squeals, ooooh yeah!
 
That last post is a perfect example of how people get in trouble by purchasing without understanding the facts. By 'ease of use', I'm not talking about learning to use the buttons, but rather how the unit fits into how you work.

The VF-80 brochure clearly states that transfering tracks to a PC requires the Fostex CD-ROM drive. Not only does that jack up the, price, it's a retarded way of working in conjunction with a computer. If I had to burn a CD every time I wanted move tracks, I'd throw the thing through a window. Of course some will say you can use the digital IO, but what are the limitations there (besides having to move tracks 'real time')? Can any track(s) be moved this way, or just a final mix?

This may be fine if your goal is to leave the computer behind for good, but at that point you'll want a unit with more muscle than the VF-80.
 
Which brings us to the fact that the VF-16/160 platform gives the most bang for the buck. If you can get a Vf160 for less that $700 on your side of the pond I wouldn't think for a minute of getting anything else. It's true 16 track (no stereo tracks) with 8 track at once (16 with external AD if needed) recording capability and the ADAT interface makes it easy to connect to computer or other pro systems.
 
mrx - just to be clear, with the VF80 you can use the SPDIF interface to move tracks as .wav files onto a PC very easily. I do it a lot. You can copy any track over, not just a final mix, and yes it is in real time, two tracks (one stereo pair) at a time, so if you've got 8 tracks on a three minute song it takes about twelve minutes.

You can also copy all the virtual tracks, so there is a total of 24 available. I find the combination of recording on a stand alone unit with none of the real time PC hassles, but mixing etc on a PC works very well.
 
That's what I figured - If it takes 12 minutes to move a three minute song I'd have blown my brains out before getting to track two. Granted, you don't have to do as many transfers due to the recording time.

Here's where you have to know what features are important and draw a line in the sand - for 200 more than the MR-8 you can get the VF-80, but wait - for 300 more than that you can get a VF-16 - ah, but for only 400 more than that you can get computer ...yes, but the VS2480 only costs less than a grand more than that...hmm, may as well get the $20K ProTools rig...
 
Yes but that's only partially true. You must take into consideration what you get for that extra money. And there's an easy rule where to draw that line. If you get four times more of those features you need for twice the money then you go for the more expensive gear but when the next step costs you twice but gives just a little more then you stop. And the VF16/160 platform is where it stops.
 
Interesting rule, Pete!

What someone needs to do is include a stinkin' USB port or card reader on one of the VF units to make file migration easier - best of all worlds.
 
I think you will see the USB port appear on more of these units.
The Zoom recorders already have optional USB port. Ultimately,
high capacity (1G+) CompactFalsh cards will be as cheap as
128MB cards are today and recording time will not be restrictive
or overly costly.
The MR8 is really a newer concept similar to the MRS-4 and it will
be exciting to see what the next version brings. I would hope for
48V phantom power and a headphone output that does not crap
out.

Peace.
 
mrx said "If it takes 12 minutes to move a three minute song I'd have blown my brains out before getting to track two. "

Well, that depends on what you're using it for. If you're recording other people and focusing on that side of it, then I can understand. If you are writing and performing your own stuff, then the twelve minutes is such an insignificant amount of time in the broader scheme of things it doesn't matter:)
 
Gary wrote: "Well, that depends on what you're using it for..."

That really sums up all these choices. Pete makes a good point for users just starting out to stretch and get a unit capable of things they may not need yet, but experienced users just really need to pound through the specs to make sure any piece of gear will fit into the puzzle.

I have to admit that the more I think about the VF units, for example, I'm coming up with uses for multiple inputs and virtually unlimited recording time that I never thought of before.
 
Well, at least the VF160 is something to consider. I think it would be pretty handy to be able to record basically anywhere with a power point, then bring the unit home and maybe mix on a computer.
Does the VF160 come standard with the ADAT features, or do you need to buy an extra card for it? If so, does anybody know how much that card's worth?
Also, are the VF160's faders motorised?
By the way, you guys are pretty lucky: You can pick up the VF160 for $660? Here in Australia it costs $3000! But that's still cheaper than the Yamaha and Roland units.
 
The ADAT interface is built-in in VF160 and the faders are not motorized. IMHO VF160 gives you more bang for the buck than the Yamaha or Roland units. It's a full featured no-nonsense 16-tracker.
 
I have just bought a VF160 as I am a guitarist without much techie knowledge and a stand alone unit is the best option for me . Therefore could I ask a stupid question.
What exactly is an ADAT ? Is it a computer card or something ?
Just curious as I may venture into computers at somepoint .
 
Adat in this case means the transport protocol for transferring 8 channels of digital audio simultaneously in realtime on a single optical TOSLink cable. The VF16/160 are the only multitrackers in the sub $1000 class that has ADAT interface as standard feature in addition to the stereo SPDIF digital interface found on the other machines in this class. And IMHO the Adat interface is much more important in real life recording setups than the 24bit/96kHz recording, built-in drum machines or sampling features found in some of the competitors.

What the VF's adat IF means in practise is that if you need more or better quality mic preamps you can always connect an external multicahannel preamp with adat output or a digital mixer to VF's adat input for that. The other practical use for the Adat IF is that you can connect the VF to computer and use then VF as recording mixer or as an analog front end if you want to track directly to computer instead of first recording on VF and after that transferring the tracks over to computer. This is particularily handy if you have external soundmodules that you control from computer thru midi and connect to the VF's analog input so you can create the monitor mix from signals coming thru the adat IF from computer (playback from the audio sequencer and/or software synth/sampler, remember that you have 4 separate stereo outputs available for this) , signals from external sound modules connected to the analog inputs and the signals from the sources connected to analog inputs you are routing to computer to be recorded. And you can apply VF's effetcs to the tracks without affecting the signals that go to the computer. In a computer based home studio the VF and a cheap adat soundcard can replace a multichannel soundcard, an external mixer and an external effects device at a lower price and thow in the portability and dependability of a standalone multitracker. How's that for a deal? IMHO Fostex has created a monster which full potential only a few users are aware of or take advantage of.
 
Thanks for this adat info .
Are adat soundcards expensive/ specialised or are most soundcards useable . What is the input needed on the soundcard ? presumably sp dif optical ?????
 
You'll need a card with optical ADAT connections that look the same as the optical SPDIF connectors found on all the newer cards. In US you can get the Terratec EWS88D card for $199 (here in EU it's about 300EUR) which has also midi ports for synchronizing your VF to recording software. There's also cheaper ones with bare ADAT connectors available but I think the sychronizing capability is worth the extra money.
 
PeteHalo said:
You'll need a card with optical ADAT connections that look the same as the optical SPDIF connectors found on all the newer cards. In US you can get the Terratec EWS88D card for $199 (here in EU it's about 300EUR) which has also midi ports for synchronizing your VF to recording software. There's also cheaper ones with bare ADAT connectors available but I think the sychronizing capability is worth the extra money.
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After researching the options, I can't believe anyone would choose the adat soundcard option over a scsi Jazz drive option. From my research so far, here are the pros and cons.

Adat.

8 tracks at once into computer. Computer has adat connection.

Cons of adat. After transfer of your first 8 tracks, you will need to be synced with midi to keep any more tracks synced together. Transfers work in real time.

now the Jazz drive.

Buy a two gig or a 1 gig Iomega jazz drive, and it will already have a 50 pin connector to go right to the VF.

My manual says it transfers faster than adat because it is just like moving data rom one hard drive to another.

You can buy a 50 pin to USB adaptor cable and software, and you simply unplug the cabe that goes to the VF, and plug in the one that goes to the USB and the computer.

You can transfer wav files, all 24 at ONE TIME, ALL IN SYNC.

You can also back up program files as well.

You will not be using your internal burner near as much if you have one.

a couple one gig disks would transfer an entire 24 tracks, so you don't need more than that.

You can get a two gig version for a little more money.

You can carry it around to other computers that have USB, and plug right in.

You could format one disk in the VF format, for backing up the entire program/song, including scenes and everything.

You would still have adat into your computer, cause you could transfer adat to the VF first, then use the Jazz to send it on digitally to the computer

I just can't imagine why anyone would want to go the other route.

Jeff
 
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