Just had my Night Train modded by Jule...

  • Thread starter Thread starter thebigcheese
  • Start date Start date
Most FX stompboxes are instrument level, most rack FX are line level. Some of either type can be configured as either line or instrument level, and so could be run into the front end of an amp, or in the FX loop. Eventide stomp boxes can be configured either way.

I agree that there is more than one way to kill a cat, soundwise. As I said previously, most people agree that time-based FX work better in a loop. However, Boss delays (DD-3, DD-6, DD-7, etc.) are instrument level and are intended to be up front.

If you are running your amp reasonably clean, then having the delay running into the front of your amp will sound fine as long as it's the last effect in the chain on your pedalboard (after distortion / overdrive boxes).
 
thebigcheese said:
It's fine if he doesn't want to undo the part that didn't work for me (though now that I've had some time with it, I don't mind it so much), but you are wrong in saying that he isn't at fault. The effects loop doesn't work at all. Well, technically it passes signal, but it's a distorted and lower-volume signal than the normal signal it ought to be passing. He wouldn't even fix that for me, and I think that I am at least owed that, considering I wasted almost $100 on it. I'm going to take it apart myself when I've got some time and try to figure out what he did wrong.
Click to expand...

Ahh, I missed that part, I thought (for some reason) you were ok with the FX loopm, just not the tonal changes.

Still, it sounds like his customer service isn't exactly stellar - does he offer any sort of warranty on his site?

And, actually, come to think of it... Are you sure the signal being sent to the FX loop is distorted, or is what's coming through the amp, post loop, breaking up? In other words, is it possible the loop is overdriving whatever you're running in it? I've had issues with this in the past - my old Mesa Nomad took a Line6 DL4 delay just fine, but I had to be very careful with the channel volume (which determines FX send volume, more or less) on my old Rectoverb, and have to keep the FX send a little shy of 12 noon on my Roadster because otherwise the send will overdrive my delay (it's especially audible in the clean channel, where repeats will be audibly overdriven if I'm not careful). This isn't a flaw in the loop, exactly - rather, my delay just doesn't have enough headroom for a line level signal, it seems.
 
thebigcheese said:
Well, technically it passes signal, but it's a distorted and lower-volume signal than the normal signal it ought to be passing.
Click to expand...

Try running just a patch cable between the send and return. If it still sounds crappy then the dude screwed it up and he needs to make it right.
 
ocnor said:
Try running just a patch cable between the send and return. If it still sounds crappy then the dude screwed it up and he needs to make it right.
Click to expand...

^^^^^^Good catch, ocnor.
 
ocnor said:
Try running just a patch cable between the send and return. If it still sounds crappy then the dude screwed it up and he needs to make it right.
Click to expand...
First thing I tried. Still have the problems. I told him, but no dice. Maybe I'll try again.
 
Well, he helped me resolve the problem, but I have to turn the send level way down to not overload my pedals, which is a little strange given that I'm supposed to be able to run the Nova Delay in a loop... Which brings me back to wanting an amp that just comes with a loop, on the theory that most effects loops are designed to let you use pedals.

I like the clean sound of the Night Train a lot. The distortion is decent, but not quite perfect. I would like to be able to tweak it a little bit. Orange amps tend to have a good sound, in my experience, but not as many tone controls. The Mesa Rectifiers are nice, but way more powerful than I need. Not sure how clean they really get, as the ones at work either don't work or don't have a footswitch connected, so I only got to use whatever channel it was on... I think I'm going to stay away from Egnater. The guys at work tell me that almost every one they've ever sold gets returned because something about it is broken. The Mesa Electra Dyne has a pretty nice clean sound and might be able to distort well, but it's a little more than I want to spend...

For clean sounds, I like the real sparkly, bright cleans, maybe what they'd call "tweed," but I also like rock and metal distortion tones, so... yeah...
 
thebigcheese said:
For clean sounds, I like the real sparkly, bright cleans, maybe what they'd call "tweed," but I also like rock and metal distortion tones, so... yeah...
Click to expand...

You keep describing the Carvin X100b. It has a beautiful clean channel, a meaty distortion channel, an fx loop, and a 100/50/25 watt selector switch. It likes pedals as well as rack units and it sounds great at any volume.
 
thebigcheese said:
The Mesa Rectifiers are nice, but way more powerful than I need. Not sure how clean they really get, as the ones at work either don't work or don't have a footswitch connected, so I only got to use whatever channel it was on...
Click to expand...

There is a switch on the back.

The Mark V and the Lonestar are the two with Fender style cleans.
 
ocnor said:
You keep describing the Carvin X100b. It has a beautiful clean channel, a meaty distortion channel, an fx loop, and a 100/50/25 watt selector switch. It likes pedals as well as rack units and it sounds great at any volume.
Click to expand...
I gotta find somewhere around here to try out Carvin amps... Not too many places stock those. The Orange Thunder 30 sounds pretty sweet, even without as many tone knobs. I guess more knobs aren't necessary if it still gets the sounds I'd want. Not sure if it can use a footswitch, but the price is nice. Much cheaper than any of the Mesas I was considering and only a couple hundred more than the Night Train.

Edit: Finally listened to some samples of the Carvin... now I really need to find somewhere to try one out! I can get the Thunder 30 for about the same price (a little cheaper, actually), so I want to compare the two. Carvin is certainly more flexible, but I haven't ever played any of their stuff and I know I liked the Orange amps I tried.
 
Last edited:
thebigcheese said:
The Mesa Rectifiers are nice, but way more powerful than I need. Not sure how clean they really get, as the ones at work either don't work or don't have a footswitch connected, so I only got to use whatever channel it was on...
Click to expand...

There's a knob on the back panel with indents for each channel, plus I believe one more for "footswitch." Give it a try, the Rectos actually have fairly nice cleans, particularly the Rectoverb and the Roadster/Road King.
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
There's a knob on the back panel with indents for each channel, plus I believe one more for "footswitch." Give it a try, the Rectos actually have fairly nice cleans, particularly the Rectoverb and the Roadster/Road King.
Click to expand...
I'll have to give that a shot. Maybe I can swap a fuse around so I can try out a 50w Rectifier instead of only the Triple... I think that what I like in my clean sounds is whatever the presence control does to the sound when boosted--it seems to me like it adds some string noise so that when you pick a string, it sounds like an actual string instead of just a note, if that makes any sense.
 
thebigcheese said:
The Orange Thunder 30 sounds pretty sweet, even without as many tone knobs.
Click to expand...

Those amps are pretty to look at but hideous sounding. The cleans are harsh and nasty and the distortion is muddy and bloated. They sound exactly like a louder version of an Epiphone Valve Junior..YUCK!
 
Outlaws said:
You have never used a loop I take it. You can use pedals just fine in a loop.
Click to expand...

nah ..... pedals generally sound crappy thru a loop.
I can only get rack mount stuff to sound good thru the loops in my amps and because of that mostly quit using loops altogether until recently.
Now that I'm using a mesa Mark V I don't use any of my dist/OD pedals so I wanted to get rid of my floor board and start using the loop. EVERYTHING sucked thru it until I hooked up one of my Digitech rackmounts and that finaslly sounded decent.
A pedal that's designed specifically to go in front of an amp like most stomp boxes doesn't work so good thru a loop designed for line levels.
The sound's just not quite right.
 
ocnor said:
Those amps are pretty to look at but hideous sounding. The cleans are harsh and nasty and the distortion is muddy and bloated. They sound exactly like a louder version of an Epiphone Valve Junior..YUCK!
Click to expand...
That hasn't been my experience with them, but to each his own.

My Nova Delay is supposed to work in an FX loop, but the reverb pedal hasn't been working out for me. I'd like to put my tremolo in the loop, but there's no way it can handle the level.
 
Lt. Bob said:
nah ..... pedals generally sound crappy thru a loop.
I can only get rack mount stuff to sound good thru the loops in my amps and because of that mostly quit using loops altogether until recently.
Now that I'm using a mesa Mark V I don't use any of my dist/OD pedals so I wanted to get rid of my floor board and start using the loop. EVERYTHING sucked thru it until I hooked up one of my Digitech rackmounts and that finaslly sounded decent.
A pedal that's designed specifically to go in front of an amp like most stomp boxes doesn't work so good thru a loop designed for line levels.
The sound's just not quite right.
Click to expand...

Any pedal with an output level or a loop with a level (like the MK V) should work just fine as long as the pedal itself isn't overly sensitive. There isn't a massive difference between -10 and +4. I have my MXR carbon copy in the loop with zero issues, and it sounds great. I use my TC GM2 more though just because its more versatile being MIDI.
 
As an additional thought, if you're familiar with the Foo Fighters song "The Pretender," I dig the clean sound for the intro. That's kind of what I mean by string noise. He's using a Road King these days, isn't he?
 
Outlaws said:
Any pedal with an output level or a loop with a level (like the MK V) should work just fine as long as the pedal itself isn't overly sensitive. There isn't a massive difference between -10 and +4. I have my MXR carbon copy in the loop with zero issues, and it sounds great. I use my TC GM2 more though just because its more versatile being MIDI.
Click to expand...

well, it can be a subtle difference but for me ...... it just doesn't sound 'right' ........ it's not that it sounds bad per se ...... but there's some little something that's not quite there in a loop.
And it's not simply a mater of -10 versus +4 ...... there's also things like impedance matching and loading coming into play. A guitar loads down the input of a pedal totally different than a loop does.

Actually, I've yet to find a loop that I actually like the sound of at all. Even the loop on my Mark V has the same thing ...... a sort of sterile quality to the sound.
Difficult to actually put my finger on but their sound just doesn't move me. The only reason I'm using the loop on my Mark V is convenience.

But everyone has their own taste and needs so YMMV.
 
Outlaws said:
Any pedal with an output level or a loop with a level (like the MK V) should work just fine as long as the pedal itself isn't overly sensitive. There isn't a massive difference between -10 and +4.
Click to expand...

-10dB and +4dB are both line levels; it's the difference between "pro" gear and "consumer" gear, and I don't remember which is which. Instrument level is much lower.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top