Just got some KRK ST6's

Y

Yareek

New member
Hi all,

I just picked up a pair of KRK ST6's on a whim from Guitar Center. My first impression is that these things are incredibly muffled. Really nice bass and midbass response, but practically no highs at all. Anybody else found this?

When I auditioned monitors, I really wanted to like the BX5a's. I was hoping they'd still have some old BX5's with the switches on the back, but those are all gone. The KRK V4's were kinda neat, but for $500 they had too little bass and high-end treble. Great midrange but very lacking. Mackie HR624's were also really good and clear, but too much money. Dynaudio BM5a's also good but too much money. The Rokit 5's or 6's were alright as well. I guess I really wasn't a huge fan of any of the monitors there. Unfortunately, the ST6's weren't hooked up so I couldn't hear them so I bought a pair to audition at home.

What's the best way to break in these monitors? I'd like to know what they sound like with 10 - 20 hours on them to hear if I can adjust or if I should take them back. I'm hoping to find a place with some BX5's that I can purchase and return if need be.
 
Hmm...I listened to them for a while this morning. Phenomenal bass response, if a bit hyped. I don't think I'd NEED a sub with these monitors. And the things are built like a TANK. Too bad they are just plain missing the high end. Almost want to swap tweeters or do some crossover surgery :D

Anyways, I did a bit of reading, and I really want to take another listen to the KRK Rokit RP6's. I dig the slightly larger woofer but don't want to go all the way up to 8" for a nearfield in a smaller room. I'll be taking another listen tonight and perhaps dropping a bit more cash down if I can get a deal.

I really wish they had a pair of Event TR6's. Those things look like they'd be some great monitors. Has anyone tried them versus the RP6's or ST6's? Also, how are the Event 20/20's? I sure don't mind going passive, but the 8" woofer kind of turns me off. I suppose it's more in the frequency response than anything else.

Anyways, I'm hoping those KRK RP6's are built as well and sound transparent enough. Otherwise, the search continues...
 
Maybe if I keep replying to my own thread I'll fake people into thinking I'm starting a big informative thread :)

Another thing I wanted to add; the ST6's sound really strained at higher volume levels.

Before this, I used a pair of Athena BS-1 bookshelf speakers (5.25" polypropolene woofer and 1" silk dome tweeter). My mixes were alright but I found that the high end was too rolled off. I ended up putting too much reverb on everything. Also, the mids were a bit hyped for whatever reason so everything sounded muddy on other systems.

And before those guys, I used a pair of Audix OM-1 powered monitors (borrowed them from a friend for a few years and had to give them back). These little guys were sweet. 4" woofers and .75" tweeters I believe, but they had a killer sound for the price. They had very very little bass and were a bit rolled off in the high end, but the midrange was very good. Not quite transparent, but good enough to mix with.

Like I said, I'm going to keep saving and listening...
 
Unfortunately I have not heard the KRK ST Series. However, you don't mention what you are powering these speakers with. Have you tried a different amp with them? Are you possibly under powering them?
 
Yareek, I haven't heard the KRKs either. I can only comment on the BX5s you mention--they're definitely a bit on the bright side, which I prefer in my monitors. And yes, the four switches are helpful for fine-tuning to a particular room. I should add, though, that I think a sub (even a cheap one) is necessary with the BX5s. Before I added a sub myself, I really struggled with mixing the low end--just not enough of it in a 5" speaker. WIth a sub, they do a fine job--my mixes transfer very well these days.

Other considerations: the Wharfedales receive mostly good press in this forum although there seem to be some shaky quality issues that arise regularly. Even better reviews go to the 6" Yorkville model, which I'd probably buy if I lost my BX5s for some reason. I've yet to hear a bad review of these from anyone who's actually owned them.

By the way, check out the helpful Future Music mag for a blind monitor shoot-out by a group of pros. The lengthy article covered two issues (Feb, March?) at the beginning of this year. Some KRK and M-Audio models, and many others, were included, and some of the results were surprising.

Good luck,
J.
 
Thanks for the replies. The ST6's were my first "sight unseen" monitor purchase, and I'm not so sure I'd do it again. I'm going to be burning a test disc and bringing it in to GC today to give another critical listen to a bunch of monitors to see what they've got that might interest me.

Unfortunately, I don't have any Wharfedale dealers in my state, and I've never heard of Yorkville aside from these forums (just checked - no dealers around here either). Like I said before, I listened to a bunch of monitors but none of them really impressed me, aside from the HR624's. Unfortunately, I couldn't hear any Behringer Truth's or Event's, both of which I would like to hear, but the opinions are appreciated.
 
I can relate to being limited on the choices and also, risking the shipping charges which is a big time hit if you don't like them. especially in this price range! 10%!

I did do the "risk" shipping a few times with the RNC and SPB1 due to the qty. of good posts here...and i was very happy with them both. So being a numbers guy, the Yorks are probably a safe bet.

Also noticed one of your posts you mentioned ST6 "reverbs muffled", that to me is one of the main differences to studio monitors sounding different than the average consumer speaker setup/design.
the mids are scooped out.

it took awhile for me to get it, to realize the mid-range/unfamiliar sound was the mids being present...and yeah, the vocals and reverbs once heard was like listening to some of my "oldie favorites" for the first time.... it was quite easy to hear the piano bench squeek at the end of DayIntheLife, for example. :)


your looking at Passives and Actives... 50% price difference.
gear1music (with online coupon) had the cheapest Yorks i could find.
 
Right now I'm using an older Sony stereo amp (apprx. 80Wx2 @ 8 ohms). If those ST6's are INCREDIBLY inefficient, it could be stereo strain, but it really sounds to me more like it's either in the circuitry or possibly the woofer. Again, the tweeter is so incredibly laid back that I don't even hardly hear it working, let alone straining.

As for the ST6's possibly being just a "step up" from the bookshelf speakers, I would agree in the low-mids and low-end, but definitely not the high-end. I've listened to quite a few speakers, used to mix on some JBL S38's (which were really nice, still kind of kicking myself for not keeping them), and I've been doing car audio installation for 5 years now. I'm running a pair of Alpine Type X (basically rebadged Vifa woofers and XT25 tweeters) and an Image Dynamics IDQ12 in the car. I know that THOSE guys are just a bit off as far as mids in the 1-2k range and generally like to be a little louder in the tweet area. But, my ears are incredibly sensitive to high frequencies and anything that even remotely resembles harshness will trigger all kinds of red flags. That's why I was so suprised by these ST6's, I wanted way more high end than they were giving me. Like I said, I'm half tempted to mod them, but not when they're a day old.

I'm just looking for as detailed a speaker as I can find. I can live with a little less bass (I have a pretty decent set of JBL's and Athena's, as well as the car system to check that against). Really, I want as close to flat frequency response as I can get from about 100 Hz on up with as best imaging as I can get. If need be, I'll build/buy a matching sub down the road, but for me right now I need to be able to hear the frequencies for EQ and reverb.
 
COOLCAT said:
I can relate to being limited on the choices and also, risking the shipping charges which is a big time hit
Click to expand...

I agree completely, Cool, and would emphasize your point that it's sometimes worth the risk. In fact, several times, I've ordered my top 2-3 contenders, auditioned them in my own home, and then returned the losers. I've chalked up the extra bucks to my long-time enjoyment of choosing the best product for me. A year later, I've completely forgotten that bit of extra expense. My experience tells me that even listening to products in a noisy local shop does not always lead to happiness at home--it's certainly worth a try, though. Even then and there, I'd recommend buying the top contenders from the store and auditioning them at home. A good store should be able to live with that, especially if it's clear that the eventual purchase decision will stay with one of the store's products.

J.
 
Alright, spent a lot of time at GC tonight and exchanged the monitors.

Gonna try to do a quickie review of the stuff I listened to. Test material was Halloween Alaska, Copeland, and A Perfect Circle.

KRK V8 2 - $1000
They've got a good amount of bass. And they're loud. But they lack detail in the mids. The high end rolls of a bit early. I couldn't see myself getting a nice accurate midrange and staging or even frequency response out of these.

KRK V6 2 - $800
Both similar and different beast than the V8's in some ways. They have quite a bit less bass, but the same kind of lack of detail. I heard both these monitors as somewhat laid back, but not even in a flattering way. I was left wanting more detail.

KRK Rokit RP8 - $600
Not a bad little set of speakers. They had a good amount of volume and more detail than the V series KRK's. Not as much bass as the V8 and wasn't quite as smooth, but it was close. The highs were the closest KRK's I found to being what I wanted, but still too laid back for me to properly mix on. Oh, and the tweeter was up 2 dB (maxed).

Mackie HR824 - $1400
Oh God. I want these. These were the only monitors I found that sounded natural and life-like. The detail was amazing and they had the smoothest bass response. The midrange was actually there. Every other monitor sounded just lacking compared to these. High end was just the slightest bit too forward (maybe in the 3-5kHz area), but just a bit. You don't become an industry standard for nothing.

KRK V4 2 - $500
Fun little speakers. Sound a little bigger than they are, but they were really working to get bass out...and they didn't have very much of it. Same laid back midrange and highs, but if you REALLY hate high end you could translate from them. Still not quite right.

M-Audio BX5a - $300
These were the anomaly. They somehow sounded out of phase, but that's not actually possible with powered monitors (I don't think). INCREDIBLY forward in the high end, sounded very hyped. If ONLY it had a tweeter control. It was scooped in the low mids, probably right around 175-250 Hz. Had a decent amount of "mid-bass" but dropped off very quickly. I'd really prefer the BX5's with the adjustable tweeter levels.

KRK Rokit RP5 - $300
Not bad. Had very little bass, but decent detail. I think the tweets were cranked on these too. It was lacking the midrange like every other KRK I auditioned. I don't know if it was the smaller woofer, but it almost seemed like the tweets were quieter than the RP8's. I think the RP6 would probably be the best of this series, but there weren't any available to hear. I would love to hear a pair of these, but I know that crucial midrange detail would not be there.

Dynaudio BM5a - $900
I liked them. They had a fairly smooth response and would make really great nearfields. You would need to add a sub because the bass rolloff was somewhat quick, but they are definitely usable. A great tweeter with great level, but the crossover region might dip down a bit too much. Worth $900? I dunno, but the passives are probably worth $500 if you can match online prices and have an amp.

Mackie KR624 - $900
Ugh. These were horrible. I don't know what it was, but I could not listen to them at all. Incredibly harsh midrange and high end. Decent mid-bass and lower mids, but not a ton of sub-bass (as one would expect). This does NOT sound like the HR824's little brother, it sounds like a terrible terrible speaker.

Alesis M1 Mk2 Active - $325 :)
Well, I bought these. I probably won't keep them, but these are pretty impressive. They had the closest to what I was looking for in a monitor. I played the deep bass track, and I was THOROUGHLY impressed by them, especially since they were nowhere near a wall like the other nearfields were. I noticed a Blue Sky sub below, so I figured "oh okay" but it was switched off. The bass on thse are VERY impressive. They've got enough high-end detail to translate, better than most of the speakers I auditioned, save for the Dynaudio's and the HR824's. They are lacking that 2-4kHz midrange detail that I NEED and CRAVE. Needless to say, I got them for pretty cheap and they will allow me to do some listening to A/B them against some Event TR6 or Yorksville's. I am hearing some things I haven't heard from other speakers, but not enough to keep them.

KRK ST6 - $200
I had these for a day. They had great bass output (slightly deeper than the Alesis') but the high end was very muffled. I don't know what it was, but they were just muffled beyond belief. Tried breaking them in for about 8 hours, no change.

So what's the verdict? Is my hearing just damaged, or do these sound like fairly accurate descriptions? And based on these comments, any speakers you'd recommend I try?

I'm going to try to find some Yorksville YSM1's around town (Music go Round is the only "dealer"), and either some Event TR6's or some of the older BX5's or BX8's.
 
Nicely explained, Yareek. Always interesting to see someone else's impressions of well-known monitors. You might want to search the SOS archives online just to compare your initial reactions to some in-depth reviews of the same monitors. It's an interesting exercise, which I've done, but I always trust my own ears in the end.

J.
 
damn great post.
i remember the Alesis sounding pretty good in my store test too.
i was surprised as they get flamed around here.

you said you bought them, but probably won't keep them?

damn, your GC seems to be quite a bit wider range on monitors.
we've got three GC around here, maybe i'll call around and see if they have other selections!!
i'd love to hear those dyn's.

from all the readings, i would have thought the Dyn's would be out there in front...and i agree 100%,
for $900 or $1400 or $1,000
they better sound at least 3x's better than the $300 set!

monitors, ears... i salute your gearheadness for the review and time spent.

you've still got several brands left to try out... Yammie, JBL, Emes, ESI, Roland....and they all claim to be flat! :eek:
 
Well I listened to the Alesis last night with my buddy after I got them home. I'll say it's the closest thing to "real" monitors I've had in my house. I am hearing quite a bit more out of them, just like you should. You can close your eyes and focus on the bass guitar, or the guitar, or the background synth. You can hear panning and imaging very precisely. I listened to Alice in Chains Unplugged, and you can actually "see" Jerry Cantrell playing right next to you but the other guitarist off in the back. All my reference CD's sounded pretty flat and lifelike, whereas the ultra-compressed rock and metal sounded pretty nasty.

I think I could definitely keep these guys IF I didn't find anything better. My only complaints are the following:

Midrange is just a bit too laid back. I think these guys are crossed over with an 8th-order at 2kHz. I'll say the midrange dip is right around there. I don't know if they're trying to play the midrange too high (usually 2k isn't a problem), or what it is, but it sounds like it's just sucked out a bit around those frequencies.

Bass can be just a bit "tubby." BUT, I'm pretty sure this is a result of them being RIGHT up against my wall. I don't believe they have the tightest bass in the world, but they won't be so bad they'd ruin mixes.

Dynamics are a bit lacking. I don't know if it's the amp sizes (75W to woofer, 25W to tweeter I believe) or what it is, but I'm not hearing or feeling the dynamics as I'd like. Generally, this is either due to VERY sub-par speakers (which I know are not the case), or a combination of decent speakers being underpowered. I had these guys cranked up as loud as they'd go, and the compression just got worse, so it seems like the amps are the weak parts of the speakers. Funny thing is, they weren't terribly loud all the way up there, they just had probably 5-10% THD.

Anyway, for $325, they're pretty sweet. Better than anything I've mixed on, but I still want to try out the Yorks and Events. As a bonus note, my old Athena BS-1's just sounded ridiculous compared to the Alesis. Highs were INCREDIBLY hyped (I want to try modding the circuit and swapping out tweeter resistor values or an L-pad if they're running straight), so much so that you couldn't get the detail out of the remainder of the frequency range. I think that's a big part of monitor speakers; nothing should stand out to mask anything else.
 
I'll be honest here--the Alesis M1s didn't work out as well for me in my small studio. The bass overwhelmed me, regardless of what I did (stuffing socks in the ports, changing placement). But I know that each studio space is different, producing different results, not to mention different personal preferences. I'm glad they work so well for you in your space.

I'm wondering now how the new Alesis models might compare. I know that they've added EQ adaptation switches, but I haven't seen nor heard them. They might be worth a listen, though, if you like the M1s.

http://www.crmav.com/al/alesis/alesis_new_m1_active_520_620_studio_monitors_speakers.shtml

J.
 
RTA & SPL: A Electronic "Room" Tuner

on the topic of monitors and sound and optimizing my Drywall-Box studio.
I wanted a "guitar tuner" for my room!!
I was only interested in my Mix position, a simple request i thought.
I wanted something better than the SPL RadioSk meter, but didin't want to spend any money.

some sr. gearheads kept mentioning this measurment mic..$50. RTA...
read, read, read, i followed their advice.

Materials:
I got an old 466mhz, 8gig HD out of retirement in the garage, 15"monitor.
Then I downloaded software, free 14 day trial Allen Heath
Then, being broke this week...i went a trading for a measurement mic. You need some cables...and one mini-cable to calibrate the soundcard itself for residual noise, it plugs into the mic and into the output.
its simple, even i did it.


Setup:
Basically the pink noise comes out of your sound card to your amp/speakers..ssshhhhh sound.
Mic placed where my head would be.
The Mic, setup in recording mode, is recording the pink noise back into the the soundcard realtime...and it is realtime response. great, simple, repeatable...gearhead likeys! Its a frkn Heat Seeking missle, this thing tracked every move!!! :D

I ran soo many tests I can't post them all here. approx? geez 50-60 tests? again, the meter tracked everything like a heat seeking missle, even the slightest movement of the monitors at times! :D
Results were kept by simply freezing the chart, pressing print-screen and openning a word doc. and pasting.

JBL Control 5 plus:
The JBL started out on their side. 10-12db spikes seen at various freqs.
In the end, the speakers were upright, placed differently, while maintaing the EE triangle. the 100hz and below was still non exsistent, the 12K and up was non-exsistent still I couldn't change that...
but it was flatter.
and the Final Proof in the Pudding...THE EARS, liked it too. PLayed a few favorites and was very happy... It was such a positive and fun project.
The JBL's took a lot of work to get optimized and several hours time due to my learning curve.
Exciting to see the RTA showing the slightest angle change of the monitors could cause a 6-8db spike!! whooa. Noise cancelling nodes were seen!! it was a science phenomena! :)
OPTIMIZED is the focus word.

Now the BW303's were not being used, due to being able to hear the reverb tails on the JBL's. So I got the BW303's plugged back in.
Everything set to flat...turned on the PINK NOISE SSSSSSHSHHSHSHSHSHSH.. clicked the RTA on Mic on...and the realtime chart appears, 20hz to 20Khz...hell, I'm a PRO at driving this software already!! with flat speakers, it took about 10minutes! ;)
and the BW303 were flat!!...very flat +/-2 or 3db from 80db to 14K. I even had to double check the settings, but it was right..these things are flat and really do go way down and wayyy up! amazing, technically. :)

the speaker comparisons, JBL & BW, even added more credibility to this test, as it showed a large difference between these two speakers, which is what my ears told me too.


Summary:
If you r wanting to fine tune your room, help ensure your placing your bass traps and auralex in the optimum position, QUESTIONING YOUR EARS OR EVERYONE ELSE's INPUTS...
Maybe you just want to see YOUR speaker plots in YOUR room...
and your a gearhead with $50 or trading materials and a pc, this RTA test was a great time in the studio, imo.

the handheld SPL meter stuff is ok, the RTA offers 10 fold the sensitivity and speed of data...no comparison IMO..and the same price if you have a pc.

its a keeper tool for me, i can run my own spec charts in my room, i can get flatter by just moving things around!...not something you will do often, but again, your ears will hear the improvements.
"My Room Tuner" tool...a great gearhead buzz, man can you dig it?
 
Interesting idea, Mr. Cat. I have the Rat Shack SPL meter that I used for car audio level setting, but I'd love an RTA.

Okay I just listened to some BX8's at my buddies house.

M-Audio BX8 - $300
I like these things now. The first time I heard them, they were incredibly bright and harsh. They are very precise speakers now that they've been broken in. I also played with the high cut (-2 dB), but I'm not sure that did the trick. They aren't as forward as the new BX5's that I auditioned, but they still sound like they have a bit, and I mean just a bit too much high mids (maybe in the 3-5 kHz range). They might work a lot better, as they have a pretty smooth high end but more in-line with the rest of the frequency range than the Alesis M1's, which sound a bit "dark" in comparison. The only problem I might foresee is that the slight edginess in the high-mids and high end might lead to some listener fatigue and might mask the other frequencies, as my hi-fi bookshelf speakers do. As far as bass response goes, they are pretty impressive (they should be for 8" speakers). They don't have the boominess that I'm hearing now in my Alesis monitors, but they play down to about the same frequency. They actually sound like they're potentially a bit, and I do mean just a hair too weak in the bass, but that's more likely because they've got a strong high end and that they're a lot flatter in the bass than your average home stereo (pumped up bass).

So what's my current verdict? I'm ordering a pair next week. Going to try them side by side. I'm hoping I prefer one to the other. At this point in time, I think that I'd probably be happier with the BX8's if I can get them for $300. Unfortunately, I don't have any other monitors that I can hear around me, so I'm not really willing to blindly purchase a third or fourth pair for comparison.

On another note, how much power would you recommend for a pair of Dynaudio BM5 passives? Would it be okay in the short run (a few weeks) to run them off a Sony 80Wx2 or Yamaha 80Wx5 home stereo? I'm wondering if maybe they'd be a better investment than either the BX8's or M1's.
 
thats a tuff decision. dang your hittin the monitor world hard..
yeah, for $300 the BX8 are an astounding deal...$300.

dynBM5 passive??
There's an SOS article that picked the DYN BM5 passive over the BW303, Wharfedale 8.2 and KRK. Dyn5 was first place in the SOS article for what thats worth. shootout article on budget monitors.

i went used & got the BW303 Retail $300 for $150pair, the JBL retail $600 for trade$125pair.
the BW303 were much flatter than the JBL and agreed with the SOS article HiFi vs. Nearfield.
i just posted a jpg. in studio/buildings under JBL SPL. in the same league as the budget monitors $300 range. proving once again your setup and room have drastic effects on the sound reproduction too.

good luck, sounds like your getting closer.... you tried the Yorks? that'd be the only one worth shipping in.
 
Glad to hear you're getting close. I'd try the Yorkies, too, given the strength of their reviews. Regarding the M-Audios, the BX5s really need a sub to bring them alive; they sound quite different when they're not trying to push out that low end below 80 or 100 Hz. Add an M-Audio SBX sub (or similar), and I believe they're a better system (and a bit more expensive) overall than the BX8s. At least they were for me when I was buying. Do let us know your final decision when all's done.

J.
 
Yareek said:
Interesting idea, Mr. Cat. I have the Rat Shack SPL meter that I used for car audio level setting, but I'd love an RTA.
.
Click to expand...

the ratshack SPL meter is actually used by many. it takes a bit more work and doesn't have the slick plot done for you. if you have a pc, i'd recommend the Measurement mic setup.

i got a RS SPL, after i was made aware most pro's mix at 80-85db, because theoretically thats when the freq are equal. is my understanding. it'll tell you how loud it is.
i did some tests with it, and learned about db's and stuff.
the data was flamed a bit because there's special offsets needed and not enough points and took it back. the RTA mic i'll keep, but don't forsee getting too crazy with it. it like a guitar tuner to me..a Room Tuner!


you know to give your monitors a fair comparison, setting them up as flat as you can could be a good reference point? and placement showed to really effect things too.
 
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