Just got my first condenser!

O

Orpheus

New member
hi.

welp, my Audio Technica AT4033/SE just arrived today in the mail.... happy day! sounded like a good deal--$250 for a brand new, never used, all original boxed SE... so i couldn't help myself.

so, i booted up Nuendo... and started three tracks... one for the AT4033, one for my Shure SM-57, and one for a SM-58. then i read a poem i wrote into each mic, each time at a distance of 6" and with the trim pot calibrated to match each mic's vollume. probably should note that i am using the pre's on my Mackie 32x8.

..........AND... that AT4033 sounded so much smoother than the Shure dynamics. sigh of relief.... so i didn't waste my $250. kinda strange--by comparison, the Shure's sounded "grainy." do you guys get that impression too?

now... i have a very deep voice, that sounds kinda muffled cause my nose is always stuffy. ... the SM-57 sounded the most "nosy"... while the SM-58 improved sounded a bit more natural. but both had some kind of strange cracking sound... and sounded grainy. then i listened to the AT4033--it sounded so much smoother (still had a little "cracking"), and gave my voice that presence that is characteristic of radio talents. made me sound so much better... heh he. there was more bass too.

well, now i probably should play around with mic distances... cause the condenser is probably more sensitive to proximity effect and stuff.....

but overall, the 4033 is so much better for recording vocals i think. so happy.... heh he....

now i wonder what even better mics sound like.

hey, do you guys use extra pop-filters for the 4033?--or do you think the built in screen is enough? also, would using outboard-pre's (as opposed to my Mackie's) lessen that graininess and crackling?

thanks.
 
You shouldn't be getting graininess and/or crackling. Something's wrong if that's the case. You're probably clipping something somewhere, so either turn your input gain down on the mackie or make sure you're not clipping whatever medium you're recording it to.
 
hmm.... well, i don't think i was clipping...... in fact, i'm pretty sure i wasn't. on the meter bridge, the lights never exceeded "0"... still had quite a bit of headroom. and the meter readings on the recordings had plenty of headroom too. using a MOTU 896 interface. all good stuff. ........not likely clipping. i'll try at lower levels later, but i don't think that's the problem. the at4033 is actually much hotter than the Shure's..... and it had the least amount of graininess.

is it okay to pass phantom power through the dynamics?--i dunno. i left it on all the time.
 
That's why the phantom power is phantom...the dynamics don't see them. :) Everything should be fine. Always remember that you should turn off phantom before plugging or unplugging cables...
 
Orpheus,
I love my 4033 also.
Keep in mind it has a really thin diaphram (like 2 microns) compared to like C-1 (6 microns) so if your voice is really strong and close you might be putting the capsule into blocking / distortion. I also found that on my Mackie if you are using the direct outs from a channel strip and push the fader up much past the unity line the output amp tends to distort some even though no light will tell you this. When using my stand alone pres I never had the problem.
 
yeah.... but the fader was at unity for all 3 mics. nothing was really turned too high up..... except for the trim pot when i was using the dynamics.... but that's the only way to get the volume high enough. and like i said, the 4033 "distorted" less than the other two dynamics, even though it was recorded at a slightly higher volume (couldn't calibrate everything totally perfect cause the 4033 had so much more output.)

so.... i dunno. i'll re-record some tracks tonight. when i was listening with the monitors, i didn't really notice the graininess.... it's only when i listened through my headphones that it really became apparent.

i wish i could borrow someone's pre's.... cause i doubt it's the mic's problem if all 3 mics do it to some degree. and i doubt it's the MOTU 896, cause everything but the mic stuff records fine. the 896 does have its own mic pre's.... but it's racked and everything with a super-duper thick snake going in the back.... would be a pain in the ass to take it out the rack just to plug in some mics.

OR...... i'm just getting excited over nothing. i tend to be pickier about things than most people for some reason. welp....... i'll try again tonight.
 
I'm wondering if the graininess is just characteristic of your voice?

I have recorded singers that I thought had really smooth tone, but once I had them solo'ed through a LDC mic on headphones, I could actually hear the graininess of their vocal chords!

A good mic can reveal things that you didn't know were there.

You said you tend to be picky, is this real obvious sounding crackling that anyone could hear, or is it only your trained ear picking it out?

How does your setup do on other sources? Other voices?

but that's the only way to get the volume high enough. and like i said, the 4033 "distorted" less than the other two dynamics, even though it was recorded at a slightly higher volume
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What did you mean by distorted? If you have distortion, then of course it will sound crackly, no matter what you record.I'm sure you know that though.
 
Orpheus said:
i wish i could borrow someone's pre's.... cause i doubt it's the mic's problem if all 3 mics do it to some degree.
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There's nothing wrong with the mic pres on a Mackie board, unless it's in need of service (which is somewhat rare). Nothing particularly exciting or lush-sounding about them, but nothing that should be giving you distortion. They have more headroom than a lot of standalone units, so I wouldn't think that would be the source of your troubles.

My guess is that since this is your first condenser, you're probably doing something wrong that you'll kick yourself for later. :D Could even be a bad mic cord. Or something's in need of some servicing.
 
I have recorded singers that I thought had really smooth tone, but once I had them solo'ed through a LDC mic on headphones, I could actually hear the graininess of their vocal chords!
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you know.... i was thinking the same thing. .............it is quite possible it's actually my voice that's the problem. i'll have to do some more in-depth experiments later today..... (use different sources/voices)...... i'll let you guys know. (by the way, i meant "distorted" as in quoting the crackling as distortion cause that's what was originally suggested on this thread........ it doesn't really sound like clipping to me)

My guess is that since this is your first condenser, you're probably doing something wrong that you'll kick yourself for later. Could even be a bad mic cord. Or something's in need of some servicing.
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you know...... heh he.... maybe man. :) but the thing is, i hear this "problem" on all the mics.... and the dynamics even more so than the condenser. so, this suggests that is this truly is a problem, it's not due to the mic, but due to something further down the signal path. but who knows......it's possible i screwed something up too. :p

i'm starting to think that it really isn't a "problem." most likely it's what maestro said.... that it's just my voice.

but we'll find out. ;)

thanks.
 
The main danger to running phantom through dynamic mikes is that if the cable fails it can damage the microphone.

A little known fact about a Mackie board is that it runs slightly quieter by keeping phantom on all the time-if you don't mind taking that chance. And their have been SM57's and SM58's "hit" by phantom power that actually sounded BETTER afterwards, but you'd be taking a big chance that one could be damaged instead.

A SM57 records my voice better than a AT 4033 BTW, so it's just a matter of matching the singer to the microphone.

A '57 (or 58) does have a grainy sound to it, and that's part of the reason it's such an excellent vocal microphone for the blues, rock, and R&B genres.

If you get a chance sometime, make sure to try out some of the
classic vocal dynamic microphones, like the Beyer M88, Sennheiser 421, and EV RE20, and Shure SM7. They can sound great on a deep voice like yours as they are of the "warm/smooth" variety.

Chris
 
Orpheus said:
when i was listening with the monitors, i didn't really notice the graininess.... it's only when i listened through my headphones that it really became apparent.
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Maybe it's just a problem with your headphone cord, or the headphones themselves? :)
 
Yes, that is the characteristic sound of a '57. The grainieness is actualy what makes it sound so dang good on electric guitar.
 
you know..... i just remembered, i did swap mics on the same cable with the phantom power on the whole time. could i have damaged anything? also is there some rule about enging/disengaging the phatom power on the Mackie?--i remembered reading some warning in the manual. it's not possible to damage anything on the mixing board itself right?
 
If you are using headphones to monitor the sound I would expect it to sound grainy or harsh or whatever.

If you want to hear what you are putting down then listen thru a decent pair of monitors or even a really good pair of Hi-Fi speakers, ATC's etc.

Headphones have there uses but because we all tend to listen thru them at elevated levels they can confuse.
 
well, my take on headphones is that they are like microscopes... they let you see things you can't usually see. personally, i use the NHTPro A-20 + B-20 system for full-range monitoring, and a pair of Sequerra met 7.7's for mixing. they're both very good, i assure you. i mean, i can hear the same graininess on the monitors too, it's just that the headphones just makes it sound more obvious.

but i listened to the same recordings over again yesterday, and it seems that the graininess is more like a quiet "rattling." now, the condensor was mounted on a shock-mount. i had to hand-hold the sm-57 and the sm-58... could that have caused the noise? i thought i held it pretty steadily... but who knows....
 
damn..... is there a FTP site or something i can upload these samples to?--i don't want them freely available to anyone. each track lasts about 1 min... and is 13mb each. or do you have icq?--i can directly tranfer it to you.
 
You'll get better results with a mic clip for the Shure's.

That way you can also better experiment with microphone placement, which will radically affect the sound.

In general;

1) point the microphone down for more chest voice
2) sing straight into it for clearer diction
3) point the microphone up to catch more "head tones".


Chris
 
hey... got another question:

since now i have the phantom power turned on on my board....

1. when is it okay to plug/unplug microphones?
2. should i unplug my condenser after every use--or if it ain't gonna be used for a long time? i figure if it's better that it's not passing any current, or the insides will age faster.
3. my mackie manual says not the make channel switch changed within 1 min of phantom power activation (doesn't say why though)..... is there anything else i need to know?

thanks.
 
Orpheus said:
hey... got another question:

since now i have the phantom power turned on on my board....

1. when is it okay to plug/unplug microphones?
2. should i unplug my condenser after every use--or if it ain't gonna be used for a long time? i figure if it's better that it's not passing any current, or the insides will age faster.
3. my mackie manual says not the make channel switch changed within 1 min of phantom power activation (doesn't say why though)..... is there anything else i need to know?

thanks.
Click to expand...

1) When the preamp gain is down and the phantom power is off.

2) Yes, put your mic and a silica gel pack in a plastic zip lock bag and then in your mic case... this will help keep moister and dust out of your mic.

3) This allows the phantom power to fully charge when powering up or to fully drain when powering down.

3b) Yea, don't drop you mic.
 
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