Scott Baxendale
Well-known member
When was the last new movie you saw shot on film?
Scott Baxendale
Well-known member
But, the CD is also digital.
It all becomes digital at some point in the chain, it’s just a matter of where.
I don’t think your CD sucked because it was recorded in Protools. It certainly is possible to ruin a good recording in Protools but that is true of tape too. Protools is as good as the engineer using it.
Farview
Well-known member
Necropost of the week winner!
You resurrected a 20 year old thread. There is a good chance that a significant percentage of the posters in this thread have died already.
You resurrected a 20 year old thread. There is a good chance that a significant percentage of the posters in this thread have died already.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
It's also a bit interesting when you think that over those 20 years, digital recording, and especially home recording has really changed immensely. Digital recording was still in it's infancy but growing at a very fast pace. Roland introduced the VS line around 1996, like VS880 and VS1680. A massive 1 or 2GB of hard drive space, and a price of over $2500! The VS2400 and 3200 came out in 2002. Likewise Korg's D16 had a 2.1GB hard drive. The Yamaha AW4416 was released around 2000 at almost $4000 with MASSIVE 12GB hard drive. Tascam released the 2488 in 2004, Yamaha introduced the AW16G, then AW1600, All these were self contained recorders, with CD burners and things like SCSI ports for external drives for backup. All were expensive as well. These were the tools that most home recordists would be looking for.
You had ADAT machines with digital mixers. Tascam came out with the Pocketstudio.
Audio interfaces were becoming more common, but many were firewire. Computers were getting more powerful but were still pretty costly to get good performance. You could get an RME interface card, and hook up your mixer. Or maybe Digidesign. That was still more the pro studio realm that the person at home.
What gets me is that the same catch phrases are being used today. Clinical, sterile, cold, and occasionally accurate (probably the most correct description).
Home digital recording has improved immensely over the past twenty years. Computer processing power and storage are greater at a lower cost. Programs like Reaper and Bandlab are incredibly powerful for little money. The tools are there and readily available. All that's needed is the talent.
I do like the comments about photography. I remember getting a 640x480 digital camera at work. It was primitive by today's standards but not any more so than my dad's old black/white brownie camera was compared to my Pentax K1000 or Nikon F2. I don't think people years ago had any idea that you would have 100MP cameras that could do both still photos and 4 and 8K video. I don't see anyone going back to film much any more. They still make prints of course but it's coming from digital cameras.
You had ADAT machines with digital mixers. Tascam came out with the Pocketstudio.
Audio interfaces were becoming more common, but many were firewire. Computers were getting more powerful but were still pretty costly to get good performance. You could get an RME interface card, and hook up your mixer. Or maybe Digidesign. That was still more the pro studio realm that the person at home.
What gets me is that the same catch phrases are being used today. Clinical, sterile, cold, and occasionally accurate (probably the most correct description).
Home digital recording has improved immensely over the past twenty years. Computer processing power and storage are greater at a lower cost. Programs like Reaper and Bandlab are incredibly powerful for little money. The tools are there and readily available. All that's needed is the talent.
I do like the comments about photography. I remember getting a 640x480 digital camera at work. It was primitive by today's standards but not any more so than my dad's old black/white brownie camera was compared to my Pentax K1000 or Nikon F2. I don't think people years ago had any idea that you would have 100MP cameras that could do both still photos and 4 and 8K video. I don't see anyone going back to film much any more. They still make prints of course but it's coming from digital cameras.
Scott Baxendale
Well-known member
Don’t you think it ultimately boils down to the cost of storage? If 2” tape was $50 a reel a lot more younger folks would still be chasing that sound.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
I don't know about that. Back in the 80s, when we were making $10K a year, a high end 2" deck like an Ampex 1200-16 or 24 would cost $25,000 to $50,000. Even something like a Tascam or Otari 1/2" deck cost about $3-5K, and then you need to buy a mixer which would be another $1 or 2K. You've spent half a year's wages before you've even started. No mics, no speakers, no tape. You needed to be supplementing your day job playing lots of gigs at night to pay for all that or else start running a commercial studio. If you can find one of those old decks today, they still cost quite a bit, or else they need massive maintenance. I think that's one reason that cassette portastudios are the hot items today for the retro tape crowd. But it's not going to give you the same thing as a 2" 24 track at 15ips.
Today, you make $25000 working at McDonalds flipping burgers. You can buy a decent computer for $500, an interface for $200, a pair of monitors for $300 and a couple of condensers for $300. That's 3 weeks salary and you don't need to spend $50 every time you want to record 15minutes of music.
If you consider that home digital recording in 2005 was roughly 10 years old, it would be similar to home tape recording in the late 50 or early 60s. Tape had another 40 years of development time at that stage, which is closer to where digital is today in terms of maturity.
Time marches on.....
rob aylestone
Moderator
Despite being old, I am just so pleased tape has gone. I never want to create the sound I got in the 70s. Even one or two mics direct to reel to reel - everything nowadays is just streets ahead. Pocket money interfaces and cheap mics can out perform in all measurable ways the old gear. I suspect, it was not really tape I didn't like, but how we did everything to squeeze the last dB out of everything. I remember listening to an original direct to tape Buddy Holly recording and it was amazing - but that was despite the gear, not because of it. Now the gear is all good, and we pay more attention to the noises we capture and don't want. The good recordings of the 60s and 70s were done in great spaces.
R
RFR
Well-known member
But would they be able financially to chase the hardware that 2inch tape runs on?
Doubtful
Scott Baxendale
Well-known member
If you had todays prices for the hardware and yesterdays prices the tape we’d be rocking!
For me, the entire recording studio model at the pinnacle of analog recording days in the mid-70’s was like being in an exclusive club of wizards and artists. The entire recording chain back then seemed mysterious and the results seemed magical. All of that is lost in today’s recording environment.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
If the new 1\4" Revox B77 costs $16,000 today for 2 channels, how much do you think a 24 track 2" Ampex or Studer would cost? In 1982, a B77 was $1800. I think a conservative price for a new 2" would be $250K.
I will agree, the first time I walked into a 4 track recording studio in the early 70s just for a visit, I was mesmerized. It was akin to being on the bridge of the Entrerprise, with all the faders and knobs. The guy on the other side of the glass was playing, and it sounded pretty damn good over the monitors.
For me, it would be like having a 59 Corvette. I think they are cooler than s*%t but there's no way I would want one for a daily driver today, or try to take a 600 mile trip in one.
Just think, in 40 years, our kids are going to be talking about "remember when we had cars with gasoline engines? That 2020 Dodge Challenger was AWESOME!!!" Too bad they outlawed oil in 2055.
I will agree, the first time I walked into a 4 track recording studio in the early 70s just for a visit, I was mesmerized. It was akin to being on the bridge of the Entrerprise, with all the faders and knobs. The guy on the other side of the glass was playing, and it sounded pretty damn good over the monitors.
For me, it would be like having a 59 Corvette. I think they are cooler than s*%t but there's no way I would want one for a daily driver today, or try to take a 600 mile trip in one.
Just think, in 40 years, our kids are going to be talking about "remember when we had cars with gasoline engines? That 2020 Dodge Challenger was AWESOME!!!" Too bad they outlawed oil in 2055.
Scott Baxendale
Well-known member
Except you can buy used 2” 16 and 24 track tape machines for relatively cheap right now. Once they are refurbished they usually work like tanks.
This was over $100k in todays money new, it still rocks
R
RFR
Well-known member
I like magic. Could use some more.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
Yeah, "relatively cheap". $7500 shipped from Germany after a $3500 price drop, or the Studer at $22500 local pickup. If you think that's cheap, more power to you. I did find an Otari 2" MX80 for $2000 in Tenn. That's more reasonable, but it's still a 40 yr old machine, and it's going to need maintenance. There's more than just purchase price, and that's why it's not going to be mainstream in home studios any time soon. There will always be a few who love it.
I knew a guy who completely restored a Model T some years ago, just because he liked working on it. His ROI wasn't in how much he could sell it for, it was in the fun he had rebuilding, painting, finding or making needed parts. Unfortunately, it was lost in a garage fire. I don't think he ever went back and restored another.
Scott Baxendale
Well-known member
Here’s one even cheaper
If you think that's cheap, more power to you. I did find an Otari 2" MX80 for $2000 in Tenn. That's more reasonable, but it's still a 40 yr old machine, and it's going to need maintenance. There's more than just purchase price, and that's why it's not going to be mainstream in home studios any time soon. There will always be a few who love it.
I knew a guy who completely restored a Model T some years ago, just because he liked working on it. His ROI wasn't in how much he could sell it for, it was in the fun he had rebuilding, painting, finding or making needed parts. Unfortunately, it was lost in a garage fire. I don't think he ever went back and restored another.
Farview
Well-known member
No power cable, unable to test...
R
RFR
Well-known member
As much as I’m a fan of Analog, I’d never get one of these 2 inch machines. Just not practical unless you’re a rockstar, or running a commercial studio.
For hobbyist purposes, my MSR16 is just fine and dandy.
For hobbyist purposes, my MSR16 is just fine and dandy.
60's guy
Well-known member
Old threads are good!
Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
After watching the technology program 'Click' this morning, with an interview of the CEO of LG, who talked about a future of household devices
harvesting data about your habits:
One big advantage of analogue is that it doesn't spy on you.
harvesting data about your habits:
One big advantage of analogue is that it doesn't spy on you.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
That's true. I saw where Apple has to pay out $95 million for collecting conversations with Siri and selling the information. My daughter wanted me to buy a smart stove last year. "You can control it from an app on your phone". I didn't set up the app for my garage door. They have smart washers and driers. They aren't smart enough. When they get to the point that it pulls the clothes out of the washer and puts them in the drier, then pulls them out of the drier and folds and hangs up the clean clothes, I'll consider it.
Something that tickled me today, was a question posed by someone on that "other forum". They bought a $2000 pair of Neumann monitors, and a $1000 Babyface interface. They wanted to know what type of cable they needed to hook them up. Seriously? I can only imagine someone like that trying to set up a console and a tape deck, with sends and returns, a patch bay and a rack full of external compressors and EQ.
Something that tickled me today, was a question posed by someone on that "other forum". They bought a $2000 pair of Neumann monitors, and a $1000 Babyface interface. They wanted to know what type of cable they needed to hook them up. Seriously? I can only imagine someone like that trying to set up a console and a tape deck, with sends and returns, a patch bay and a rack full of external compressors and EQ.
Scott Baxendale
Well-known member
Smart devices make you stupid.
The promise of AI was that it would take care of all the mundane tasks we hate to do, like cleaning the bathroom or doing the laundry, to allow humans to be the creative individuals they are, when in fact AI has already stolen every piece of intellectual property and has kicked the creatives to the curb to be relegated to cleaning the bathrooms.
The promise of AI was that it would take care of all the mundane tasks we hate to do, like cleaning the bathroom or doing the laundry, to allow humans to be the creative individuals they are, when in fact AI has already stolen every piece of intellectual property and has kicked the creatives to the curb to be relegated to cleaning the bathrooms.