Just can't get that gutsy driving sound...

[Stewwy]

I know this sounds vague, but I just can't get a good ballsy sound out of my electric guitars... any of them. Is there a basic pedal that I'm missing? I currently use the POD II, it's nice and all, but I still seem to need some form of overdrive / distortion pedal. I don't want to record heavy metal or anything, but I do want a guitar that really "cuts"... you know what I mean? Any suggestions?

 

[LocusLarsen]

Thats where tubes and microphones come into the picture.

 

[carlosguardia]

What kind of guitar are you using?! What kind of Amp are you using?! What else is there in your chain?!

 

[LocusLarsen]

What kind of Amp are you using?!

I doubt he is using an amp..........he said he is using a POD. He could be, but I doubt it...

 

[64Firebird]

It's not in the amp as much as you might think it is. Albert King used solid state amps for most of his career and nobody could tell the difference.

Maybe I can help, but I need a little more info. Tell me who you want to sound like and I'll see what I can do.

 

[GONZO-X]

honestly, this is so obvious!

you need a real amp, cranked to high heaven, and once you've established that feel and sound, then MAYBE, maybe you can translate it to a device like a pod.......

it's not so much about gain stages and all that, as it is HOW you play.

but having a fire breathing amp, does help.

 

[esactun]

Taking a few guesses:

If you're recording, it's possible that you're using too MUCH distortion.... too much applied incorrectly will have that nasty rip/shred sound but have no size or balls or thickness.

If you're recording, double up the tracks... as in play the left side axe twice, and play the right side axe twice... preferably with somewhat different sounds (say, one punchy, and another with that sucked-mids super-metal sound). That should add to the thickness.

I don't have a POD but have used other amp modelers.... they seem to lack in the "punch" department, esp. on high gain. It can be just the right sound or just the wrong sound...

Unless you have already found good settings to use, you probably don't want to use a pedal AND a POD together... it can be done, but it's SO easy to just get total shittiness when doubling up distortions.

Definitely get advice from Firebird64. He knows his axe tones!!

 

[6gun]

why not pick the top 3 guitar sounds that you do like and research what gear is used. everything from pickups, stomp boxes and string gauge to speaker type and amp type/settings. then off to your local shop and try out something identical or as close as possible.

if you don't produce close to what is your favorite then the problem may be your playing style.

oh, don't forget to stock your wallet when you do find what you like.

 

[sonusman]

Get rid of the freakin' POD!!!

I am stilling smarting that the studio owner, while fully knowing that we need another tracking compressor like an LA2A, and a few more mics, spent MONEY to buy the POD 2. While it is a slight improvement over the original POD, it STILL doesn't sound like an amp.

I can guarantee you that that POD is NEVER going to produce the tone you are after. I have messed with them for hour upon hours and they just don't cut it.

Start with a Fender Twin or Super Reverb, or a Marshall JCM 800 with a 1960 cab. Vox has some great sounding amps. Older Mesa's are great. So many great sounding amps. No way that POD is going to touch the sound of any of them.

I would like nothing better personally than to be able to just plug in a guitar, call up a preset on the a device, make a small tweak or two, and have a great tone. Oh year, I would love that. I would love not having to deal with loud amps in the studio, and have the player right by me while tracking so they hear what I hear. But you know what, seldomly does something like the POD produce a usable tone that come close to emulating a real amp sound. Thus, I spend the time going through various amps, stomp boxes, speaker cabinet combo's to find that right sound for every client. No, I am not trying to "milk it" for more money, I am more about getting what sounds great. I don't find it in the POD.

Peace

Ed

 

[64Firebird]

Let's not turn this into an amp vs mod debate. We've already argued that one into the ground. Let's just try to help each other with what we already have.

I have a J Station that I use for recording and I have a vintage amp that I use for playing out. I love the convenience of both for what I use them for.

 

[sonusman]

Let's not turn this into an amp vs mod debate. We've already argued that one into the ground. Let's just try to help each other with what we already have.

I have a J Station that I use for recording and I have a vintage amp that I use for playing out. I love the convenience of both for what I use them for.

Fine and dandy. What do you suggest for him? The JStation, which I own, is only about as good as the POD 2. So, I wouldn't use a JStation for anything but scratch tracks, and I live with it's limitations.

If sharing my experience with crap isn't helping, well, I guess I should just say something like: "Hey, I love the POD, I can't figure out why you don't like it. It works great for me. It drives. It cuts. It sizzles." But then, I would be lying. So, I suggest to get rid of the POD and get a real amp. This guy is seeking a specific sound that I know damn well isn't going to be got by ANY amp modeler. So, he wants the type of sound that he hears on CD's where real amps were used. It only makes sense to suggest using real amps eh?

Ed

 

[Tonekat]

I agree with Sonusman. I have been very happy with my 65 Vibrolux Reverb with any of my guitars. I don't even need a pedal to get nice overdrive at a reasonable volume.

Sonusman, I didn't realize you were in Portland. Do you know my friend Dave Mullany? He does an acoustic blues thing. Also, thank you for the advice you have shared on this board.

 

[64Firebird]

What I suggest is that we offer advice on how to get the best sounds out of the gear he already has. Telling someone that their gear is no good isn't helping, it's just looking down your nose. Maybe you can't get good sounds out of the POD or J-Station, does that mean that nobody can?

I get great sounds out of my J-Station and I'm not the only one that thinks so.

 

[Tonekat]

You're right, 64 Firebird. I guess I would suggest to Stewwy that he needs to fool with his tone controls to achieve a sound that cuts through, since he says he has a pleasing level of overdrive.

 

[sonusman]

I have yet to hear any recording, or tone "live" while mixing that used an emulator where the tone could be considered "gutsy", or "driving". I am not "looking down my nose". I am giving practical advice based upon my experience. I would be happy to start comparing mixes with people the compare amp emulators with real amps and let the masses decide what is "gutsy" and "driving" between them.

There are times where an amp emulator type of sound might be appropriate, but usually only when a "glossy", "over processed" sound is sought. But time and time again when a driving sound is needed, regardless of ANY tweak to the sad ass DSP on emulators, they don't deliver.

Post up your "gutsy" and "driving" guitar tones Firebird and Tonecat. And again Firebird, you haven't suggested one damn thing about HOW to achieve that sound on an amp emulator. I am guessing that you must know this secret otherwise you wouldn't suggest that I don't know how to use these devices that I have only spent considerable amounts of time working with, and often wasted hundreds of dollars of clients money in the dubious pursuit of making them create "gutsy" and "driving" guitar tones.

I want to hear it before I will believe it, because frankly, not one single person has been able to post a damn mix where the guitars were done with a POD where I considered the guitar to have those qualities.

Ed

 

[jdrockweller]

One thing that I think has been left out of this discussion thus far is the issue of the guitar itself.

I own both a Schecter Diamond series with dual covered Duncan-designed humbuckers as well as an Ibanez added Seymore Duncan hotrail pickups. Lord knows I have owned my share of crappy guitars through the years and only since the purchase of these guitars (and, of course, some decent amp/pedal combinations) have I really started to get towards the sound that I want. In fact, the difference in sound between my two current guitars when played on identical setups is quite striking. The Ibanez is punchy and ballsy while the Schecter is crunchy and sizzly - both sound pretty good depending on the song.

My point is that while the amps and such are all very important in getting that great sound, the guitar - and especially the pickups - are easily overlooked and equally important.

Your best bet is to go try out different guitar and amp combinations in a store. I played in a store for several hours one day before deciding on a purchase of a guitar, amp, and pedal. Even take your current guitar(s), pod, and amp with you. You might even find that one or more of those elements of your curent setup will work out beautifully with some other combination.

Good luck!

 

[buckshot plevna]

I was experiecing the same problems with my tele. I wanted a thick, ballsy, AC/DC without the metal sound. Because I don't know what guitar you have but in my specific case, I just lacked low end. I cranked the bass to 9 on my marshall, cranked the bass on my BOSS Power Driver (which is a great ballsy sounding pedal, hence the name POWER driver) and I also bought a BOSS EQ pedal and I have that on a setting which bossts my lower end. That may sound excessive but when the marshall's up to 3, the whole house shakes!

BP

 

[Amateur Eric]

Try lots of things

just some ideas here.....

As someone mentioned previously, don't overdrive it too much....

Another thing, try heavier strings....

And as neat as the Pod's are.... try using an amp. nothing is gonna beat the sound of a speaker cone breaking up.

Oh yeah, I know they're kind'a pricey but I just bought a monster jazz guitar cable.... it took out the nasty high end shrill sound and left nuthin' but this deep, crystal clear gutsy sound. Of course, that was with my Godin LGX-SA with it seymore humbuckers running through a line six spider.

Just keep trying different things

Good luck

Eric

 

[64Firebird]

I have yet to hear any recording, or tone "live" while mixing that used an emulator where the tone could be considered "gutsy", or "driving". I am not "looking down my nose". I am giving practical advice based upon my experience. I would be happy to start comparing mixes with people the compare amp emulators with real amps and let the masses decide what is "gutsy" and "driving" between them.

There are times where an amp emulator type of sound might be appropriate, but usually only when a "glossy", "over processed" sound is sought. But time and time again when a driving sound is needed, regardless of ANY tweak to the sad ass DSP on emulators, they don't deliver.

Post up your "gutsy" and "driving" guitar tones Firebird and Tonecat. And again Firebird, you haven't suggested one damn thing about HOW to achieve that sound on an amp emulator. I am guessing that you must know this secret otherwise you wouldn't suggest that I don't know how to use these devices that I have only spent considerable amounts of time working with, and often wasted hundreds of dollars of clients money in the dubious pursuit of making them create "gutsy" and "driving" guitar tones.

I want to hear it before I will believe it, because frankly, not one single person has been able to post a damn mix where the guitars were done with a POD where I considered the guitar to have those qualities.

Ed

I haven't offered any advice yet because I find the terms "gutsy" and "driving" to be a bit vague, too subjective. If Stewwy could be a bit more spacific, I have plenty of advice to offer.

 

[cstockdale]

Hey 64Firebird, this thread indicates that you know how to get great tones .....out of a J-station.

I use one as well, and have been "mostly" happy with the thing, actually, I really love the damn thing, especially since I hooked up a Behringer FCB1010 controller for it so that I can adjust any parameter of the J on the fly. I also play it through a little Fender Frontman 25R amp, which when I have the cab simulation and amp sims off, I love the J just as an effects unit. For recording I take it direct, using both the digital out (spdif) and the analog outs, and do a bit of mixing of the two, but I am still missing a few classic tones. I play an Epiphone Wildkat: semihollow body with P90 pickups.

1) Mark Knopfler, as in stuff from his Sailing to Philadelphia album: especially the first track "what it is" , or say "Brothers in arms" tone: thick and creamy, subtle breakup/overdrive

2) something along the lines of Peter Gabriel style sound (ie on his latest, UP, the track Growing Up has gorgeous clean harmonics and delay in it)

3) If you have heard Lucinda Williams "Essence" album produced by Charlie Sexton, some similar tones to Mark Knopfler: thick, creamy and just beginning to break up/rumbly. The lead guitarist with Natalie Merchant also really uses this same tone.

I have found putting a threshold of -20dB on the compressor with a ratio of 15:1 or higher with the Blackface model works pretty well, but it just isn't quite there. I am also well aware that my playing style itself is part of the issue, and I tend to play with my fingers more than a pick. Any recommendations or patches would be most welcome.