Just a short demo I recorded...

[DARKSHINE]

Hey all.

This was my first time recording on my little home studio set up:

Focusrite LE
Tascam vl-4a monitors (cheap I know, I had to bargain)
Studio Projects B1 Condenser
Sennheiser HD280 Pro Headphones

HERE

Now I just want some feedback, I doubled up on the vocals in the first verse (which imo sounds horrible, than again it might just be because it was sun poorly in one or two takes) but yes, some feedback on how to get my acoustic guitar sounding better, and my vocals. I want to record a really good demo before I start with my originals..

All help is appreciated,
thanks heaps!

Daniel

 

[up-fiddler]

Hey Daniel

I don't find anything wrong with the sound of your guitarbut I don't know what you are going for. Your vox sit rather low in the mix and if I wasn't already familiar with the tune it would be difficult for me to discern the lyrics. My recommendations would be as follows:
1. Raise the key a step or even a step and a half. Your vox seems to be at the bottom of its range and that limits your ability to express yourself dynamically.
2. Sing it in several takes until you get your best one down and post that. Then we can help more fully once we know what your best actually is.
3. Post over in the mp3 clinic also. You will find those guy helpful too.
4. Bring your vox level up in the mix.

Good luck. Great to have you posting your work here. Dave aka up-fiddler

 

[nzausrec]

F..k Daniel, first impressions great.
I like that intro.
Nice voice.
You said you were just starting...
Nice my man.
Good gat levels.
Nice spacing with vocals.
You know what I mean - phrasing is good. If you've got it. You have.

Bugger it, only 1:20 secs.
PS: ^ Don't raise it a tone - just wait till the chorus and let fly, okay?

It's a cover? How about your own?

I saw your videos. You've already got a bit of a warm following. Can do well.

I reckon that is good making material.
I'd like to do some bvs on that.

 

[icystorm]

...some feedback on how to get my acoustic guitar sounding better, and my vocals.

I thought your guitar work was very good, Daniel. I'm envious!

Cheers,
Joseph

 

[DARKSHINE]

thanks

Hey thanks a lot for the kind words guys It means a lot.

I'm glad that it isn't too bad for a first recording... Although I'm not totally satisfied with my recording work just yet. I'll hopefully record a song soon when I get some of my school work out of the way. It'll be original as well.

I'm sort of a perfectionist when it comes to music. I keep doing things over and over until I really like the sound of it, which can be really frustrating when recording as sometimes I just can't get what I want; this is something that I need to practice and experiment with a lot more though.

If anyone else has an opinion on how I can improve my recordings, please don't hesitate.

(I'll post this topic in the mp3 clinic as well)

Cheers,
Daniel

 

[nzausrec]

A schoolboy!
Note that F..K is an abbreviation, shouted in great chivalrous fashion of Arthur's Court, "For Knights!"

 

[gecko zzed]

My first impressions:

1 Great sounding guitar, and nicely played. So much so that I don't think you need to double it. Because it is so good, I'd like to hear it all by itself, loud and proud.

2 You recorded along to a click track, right? I can hear, in only a couple of spots, just a bit of hesitation on the guitar as you drift slightly off and catch up again.

3 Vocal quality is good. Nice character in the voice that you can work with. Upfiddler suggested going up a couple of semitones and I agree. I don't think it's sitting too low in the mix, but I agree that it sounds like you're pushing the boundaries of your bottom register, and you could get more energy and strength into the vocal by raising the pitch. The effect I hear at the moment is one of inhibition.

4 The double-tracked vocals are fine, but as with the guitar, I doubt that you need to go to that length. Your voice is good enough to carry the melody on its own.

5 You mentioned that you were a 'perfectionist when it comes to music'. This is dangerous territory, because you run the risk of becoming trapped by the process and robbing the content of its emotion. I like the idea of doing only a few takes and opting for the best of those (even if not perfect). I also like the idea of shutting your eyes and going for it . . . even a gentle song benefits from a vocal delivery that is focussed on the meaning.

Great work, and I hope to hear more.

 

[mattdee1]

Hey thanks a lot for the kind words guys It means a lot.

I'm glad that it isn't too bad for a first recording... Although I'm not totally satisfied with my recording work just yet. I'll hopefully record a song soon when I get some of my school work out of the way. It'll be original as well.

I'm sort of a perfectionist when it comes to music. I keep doing things over and over until I really like the sound of it, which can be really frustrating when recording as sometimes I just can't get what I want; this is something that I need to practice and experiment with a lot more though.

If anyone else has an opinion on how I can improve my recordings, please don't hesitate.

(I'll post this topic in the mp3 clinic as well)

Cheers,
Daniel

I listened to your track and it sounds quite good! I know what you mean about the perfectionism, but bear in mind that you're probably being too hard on yourself. Obviously you have the skill, nobody else is going to hear the "faults" that you hear. IMO, you should just lay down a passionate take and keep it.

 

[rayc]

Song's fine you're going to make progress...
These two statements aren't consistent:
"Although I'm not totally satisfied with my recording work just yet." &
"I'm sort of a perfectionist when it comes to music. I keep doing things over and over until I really like the sound of it."
You are a perfectionist or you are not. If you were you wouldn't put out something imperfect.
You may be obsessive, reaching for the stars, trying to do better or all of them but perfectionists don't exist - perfectionism is a disability that rendered the sufferer imperfect hence they can no longer be perfectionists - & might I add they usually have messy bedrooms! I find perfectionism used as an excuse for a) bad people skills (as demonstrated by me writing this stuff) or b) rarely completing a task.
Keep trying to improve & do better BUT also accept the occasional limitation - it's what makes the imperfections shine.

 

[up-fiddler]

.....I find perfectionism used as an excuse for a) bad people skills (as demonstrated by me writing this stuff) or b) rarely completing a task. Keep trying to improve & do better BUT also accept the occasional limitation - it's what makes the imperfections shine.

Good observation.

 

[Emusic]

Hey all.
All help is appreciated,
thanks heaps!
Daniel

I like the guitar playing and sound. Like the singing too but find the mix dulling the voice. Also might be the doubling that quickly gets me into an impression of listening fatique.

Clear up the vocals and its much better.
Dont double it all, just double some phrases, and go carefully on reverb/echo etc..

Keep it up

Regards
Emusic

 

[icystorm]

You are a perfectionist or you are not. If you were you wouldn't put out something imperfect.
You may be obsessive, reaching for the stars, trying to do better or all of them but perfectionists don't exist - perfectionism is a disability that rendered the sufferer imperfect hence they can no longer be perfectionists - & might I add they usually have messy bedrooms!

I respectfully disagree, Ray. Perfectionism does not necessarily lead one to become incapacitated by his condition to the point of closing down in totality.

One can be a perfectionist, yet rationalize that perfection is often an unachievable, illogical goal.

I consider myself a recovering perfectionist. Long ago, I realized that perfection, although very desirable, is mostly unattainable. That was a bitter pill to swallow; and I'm not referring to my limited musical abilities here.

In essence, I rationalized that I am a perfectionist, but perfectionists cannot function adequately in the universe as it exists due to the chaos theory. I can only control so much before reaching the point of diminishing returns. Logically, additional effort will not change most outcomes. Ergo, I do the best I can, within reason, and try to cope with any undesirable outcomes that follow.

Further, perfectionism is a very grueling, tiring mindset that is futile. Sheer exhaustion usually results from the effort.

Ultimately, I reasoned that I have two options; (a) do the best that I can, which is often less than perfect, or (b) do nothing, which is even less desirable. Many times, I would rather do nothing than engage in a behavior that will produce an imperfect result, but I understand the flaw in that reasoning and I resist the strong urge to remain passive rather than engage in imperfect behavior.

The circular logic that confounds me to this day is:

1. "Do not spend too much time on the mundane details of a project at the expense of completing the entire project on time" (i.e., rapidity is better than accuracy).

2. "Ensure that the mundane specifics and details of the project are fully addressed and the project is error-free" (i.e., accuracy is better than rapidity).

D'oh!

It annoys me to no end when someone else catches a mistake that I made when I knew beforehand that, had I been given more time on the project, I would have easily caught the mistake myself.

I consider myself a fast, efficient person, and such circular logic is mind-boggling to me. Remember, such "logic" is how NASA managed to lose a multi-million dollar spacecraft (e.g., the engineers mixed metric and English units of measure by mistake because no one took the time to do it correctly and check the details of processes and results). Rapidity was emphasized over accuracy in the case, and the results were quite predictable, as usual.

What were we talking about again? Heh.

Rant over...

Cheers,
Joseph

 

[gecko zzed]

I respectfully disagree, Ray. Perfectionism does not necessarily lead one to become incapacitated by his condition to the point of closing down in totality.

One can be a perfectionist, yet rationalize that perfection is often an unachievable, illogical goal.

I think Ray's point is that perfectionism, by definition, means that you are not satisfied until perfection has been achieved. If you "can be a perfectionist, yet rationalize that perfection is often an unachievable, illogical goal" then Ray (and I) would argue that you are not really a perfectionist. You are in fact a realist.

Becoming incapacitated occurs in (at least) two ways: an inability to finish something, because you are forever trying to make it better, and an unwillingness to start something, because you know it will not be perfect no matter what you do.

However, I do like this idea of being a 'recovering' perfectionist, which I think is highly possible . . . someone can adjust their goals, motivations and mental outlook so that they can cope with the realities of life, rather than being trapped in an obsessive-compulsive loop.

Your circular logic is a neat dilemma:

1. "Do not spend too much time on the mundane details of a project at the expense of completing the entire project on time" (i.e., rapidity is better than accuracy).

2. "Ensure that the mundane specifics and details of the project are fully addressed and the project is error-free" (i.e., accuracy is better than rapidity).

One way of resolving this is to look at the difference between 'input' repair and 'output' repair.

'Input repair' is the work done before and during the process of recording so that you make sure that as many of the 'mundane specifics' are dealt with. For example, making sure the guitar has good strings on and is in tune; making sure your playing is in time, making sure you know the chords. And so on.

'Output repair' is fixing stuff once the bulk of tracking has been done. In this case you shouldn't have to worry about the mundane, but only on the things that have an unpleasant influence on the overall sound.

As an illustration, I recorded a track that required a lot of repetitive picking high on the neck of my 12-string. The guitar sounded fine, my playing was reasonable and things were going well. However, at one point my fingernail caught on a string with a big, unexpected twang. By this time I was not in the mood (after quite a few takes) to fix it (not even by dropping in . . . I was sick of it). So I left it and added other stuff. By the time I got around to mixing it, I'd forgotten about that mistake, and I only noticed my creative brilliance in making an unexpected twang just where one needed to be.

The moral is that what was once thought of as a 'mistake' (simply because it weasn't planned), can disappear in context, and can sometimes lend a pleasant bit of innovation.

 

[nzausrec]

I go along with that.
-When playing and make a small mistake perhaps best to continue through as sometimes small mistakes give live moments to the tune.
-You can lose the 'feel' by making repeated attempts.
-You can waste heaps of time by re-visiting the song.
-After mix-down on something that you've finally perfected, you sometimes find additional problems that just appear out of nowhere, for example, strange missed notes with other instruments, clipping, stuff like that ...

Sometimes you get a new feel by starting from scratch, (or having to have started again from memory because you've deleted all the original files.) Though mostly from procrastination you get a heap of unfinished projects.

Though a couple of things, we do learn new ways when trying to perfect something. You can get a clearer sound, or better construction. And, we can get better when pushing for a new expression ...

So, it's all a bit of a trade-off.

 

[DARKSHINE]

You guys just made me realise my problems... I just thought about what you guys were saying, and it made a lot of sense..

(b) do nothing, which is even less desirable. Many times, I would rather do nothing than engage in a behavior that will produce an imperfect result

This is what I do almost 80% of the time I know its sad, but its something I have been trying to overcome. Its terrible and its my little inside voice that is holding me back from everything... It has a lot to do with my procrastination as well.

I also found the the idea by gecko zzed ...

Becoming incapacitated occurs in (at least) two ways: an inability to finish something, because you are forever trying to make it better, and an unwillingness to start something, because you know it will not be perfect no matter what you do.

This is a problem I have... I'm currently under the great pleasure and pressure of writing a song for a feature film. I have completed the song, yet, I'm not happy with it. I have played it to various people, and they really loved the song. But yet, I'm still not happy with it. I'm not satisfied with the sound of the song, to me it just sounds "boring" and "crap" ... I can't get over this problem, and its the problem that is depriving me of writing decent music. I'll have some nice music, some nice lyrics eventually, and I write a decent intro/verse/chorus, etc.... and by the end of it. I feel that its not good enough and I pretty much put my guitar down and feel like crap... your talking about someone who wants to create and perform music for his career... yet this problem I have is what is killing me. It just throws me off writing all together and puts me in this pessimistic state about my future. I know its deep, but I need to get over it...

You can now see, I haven't even talked about my recording part. Thats the thing! At this point I haven't even gotten to recording, and look at my attitude. I'll never be able to lay an EP if I continue to think like this. Another thing that gets me down is that I know I can do well in music if I could just be strong about my motives and actually like something I wrote... but it's just not happening at the moment and I don't know if its because of procrastination or frustration and/or inablitity to like anything I write.

Sorry to blabber so much, I just need to get that out...
you guys have just really confronted me with my problems.
I thought that I had to admitt these problems or music just won't work for me.

Thanks for everything guys.

 

[gecko zzed]

You guys just made me realise my problems... I just thought about what you guys were saying, and it made a lot of sense..



This is what I do almost 80% of the time I know its sad, but its something I have been trying to overcome. Its terrible and its my little inside voice that is holding me back from everything... It has a lot to do with my procrastination as well.

I also found the the idea by gecko zzed ...



This is a problem I have... I'm currently under the great pleasure and pressure of writing a song for a feature film. I have completed the song, yet, I'm not happy with it. I have played it to various people, and they really loved the song. But yet, I'm still not happy with it. I'm not satisfied with the sound of the song, to me it just sounds "boring" and "crap" ... I can't get over this problem, and its the problem that is depriving me of writing decent music. I'll have some nice music, some nice lyrics eventually, and I write a decent intro/verse/chorus, etc.... and by the end of it. I feel that its not good enough and I pretty much put my guitar down and feel like crap... your talking about someone who wants to create and perform music for his career... yet this problem I have is what is killing me. It just throws me off writing all together and puts me in this pessimistic state about my future. I know its deep, but I need to get over it...

You can now see, I haven't even talked about my recording part. Thats the thing! At this point I haven't even gotten to recording, and look at my attitude. I'll never be able to lay an EP if I continue to think like this. Another thing that gets me down is that I know I can do well in music if I could just be strong about my motives and actually like something I wrote... but it's just not happening at the moment and I don't know if its because of procrastination or frustration and/or inablitity to like anything I write.

Sorry to blabber so much, I just need to get that out...
you guys have just really confronted me with my problems.
I thought that I had to admitt these problems or music just won't work for me.

Thanks for everything guys.

There are some other things to take into account as well, and an important one is how our brains are wired.

For example, some people have a real facility for getting things done . . . they were the kids at school who used to organise the other kids . . . getting them to stand in line or whatever. Other people have great analytical and research instincts . . . and will find out everything about what it is they are interested in. For example, if they are going to buy a microphone, they will download hundreds of pages, talk to experts, consult with users and so on (and, in the end, may still not be satisified with their purchase, if they actually get to make it). Others have considerable creative ability, and can compose, or draw, or write, and it just seems to flow from them. There are few people who are good at all these things, because brains don't seem to work that way.

So one of the problems is that highly creative people may come up with lots of ideas, but may not be able to convert them to reality. Other ideas may be totally impractical.

Quite often bands disintegrate because, by their nature, they attract creative people who don't necessarily have good business acument, or they fail to agree on a course of action.

Personally, I like designing, but I hate implementing. So I can come up with a good idea for a song, but that's the end of it, because I can't find the impetus to do something with it. I've got designs for all manner of things that float around the house, and nothing happens to them. I really need a collaborator who can take these ideas and do something with them.

So I can readily see how someone might be able to write a really good song, but then struggle to take the next step. This is aside from any considerations of perfectionism or whatever.

In debating circles there is a phenomenum called the 'fallacy of unobtainable perfection'. The way this is normally used is to knock down an idea because it is not perfect. Environmentalists are adept at using this argument, because they have a strong fundamentalist core . . . "No we won't accept nuclear energy as a means of reducing CO2 emissions because of the risks of catastrophe and the problem of waste." The tacit assumption behind this is that the status quo is ok . . . that it is okay to continue actual harm, rather than seek the option where harm is reduced. They won't accept an alternative unless harm is eliminated.

In music terms we write, and we can mentally subscribe to this fallacy . . . I won't do anything with this song because it is not perfect. Perfection is unobtainable, so that implies never doing anything with it. That means we have to mentally shrug our shoulders and say "this is where I have to stop, because I'm at the point of diminishing returns, and unless I say enough is enough, I'll get nowhere."

Part of being able to do this is having confidence in what you do . . . not confidence in producing a blemish-free result, but confidence that in spite of any blemishes, the product will be good enough for others to recognise it as such (and half the time those blemishes are not noticed anyway).

 

[rayc]

This is why, in the professional world, a writer has an editor and a recording artist has a producer. If either is worth their salt they yell stop before the erase button is hit.
It's also why I use these forums. I'm no pro. and I'm not much chop - I tend to make densely packed recordings because I don't know when to stop. having learned to post sooner rather than later - around the time I start getting antsy - I open a space for other minds - superior to mine to act as producer/editor.
The good folk on these boards say when or keep going or cut that bit etc. For some time I referred to the results as Camel Committee Mixes - (most people know the old chestnut about the camel being a horse designed by a committee) - because the camel isn't beautiful but it is perfectly suited to it's environment. The results of such intervention from forum members isn't beautiful but always enhances the product of my skills, inspiration and aspirations.

 

[gecko zzed]

I tend to make densely packed recordings because I don't know when to stop.

That is a real killer!

I have a guitar in my hand and the record button has been pressed . . . why shouldn't I play through the whole song? The temptation to play when you should stop is almost impossible to resist.

But it is not always easy to know when to play and when not to play, which is a problem in itself. (Hence the desirability of that external, emotionally unconnected editor.

One way around the porblem is to go for densely packed, then to peel away the layers afterwards . . . like sculpting a block of granite . . . chipping away the bits until the horse (or whatever) is all that is left.

 

[DARKSHINE]

thanks

thanks heaps for these replys.
Make's a lot of sense when I think about it.

I gotta just stop procrastinating and get this idea of perfection out of my head.

I think I'll be okay. =]

Once I have a few songs down, I'm going to record them and they'll be straight on here.

Cheers
Daniel

 

[up-fiddler]

.....Once I have a few songs down, I'm going to record them and they'll be straight on here.

Daniel - It's certainly not my/our place to tel you what to do. Still, if you're looking for advice........I think you should just try to get out ONE song in the next 8-10 days. Setting a deadline gives you both impetus to get started and an excuse to be less than perfect.

I agree, however, that you want your best stuff 'out there' but think of this as a rough mix. After comments or time you can always go back to it and add/delete what you feel will make it closer to perfect for your vision of what the song should be.

Finally, advice is like bodily orifices, everyone has some. In the end try many methods until you find which one works best (But maybe not perfect.) for you.

Good luck and let us hear what you are up to now and then by posting here. Most of your struggles are similar to those demons we have all addressed at some point in time. Dave aka up-fiddler