"Jolene" demoing new vocal mic

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jaz49

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I'm demoing a new vocal mic in this clip on a song I wrote last year. Any feedback is much appreciated. The backing tracks were mixed about a year ago. Just above this song on my music page is the original version. I'm wondering how the new vocals done with the AKG D3800 compare to the original version. Please forgive the vocal performance, but it was my first day with a new mic. It's a very unforgiving mic, I was concentrating on my position and looking at the levels in the DAW as I was singing...plus it was 1:30 AM. Click on music on the left side of the page to hear the original version.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=159609&songID=7575498
 
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Not good man. Sorry. I don't even know where to begin. Lots of boom, sibilance, noise, poor enunciation.
 
O.K. fair enough...but how about beginning with some positive suggestions as to how to make it better. Let's forget the poor enunciation...it was just a quick take late at night to test the mic. Now, aside from using a de-esser, singing better and editing out the noise, what would improve the vocal track? Anyone?
 
Yeah, that was cold- but anyway, what Greg L describes as "boom", I think, is the abrupt proximity of that mic. The sibilance is the truth, and a deesser is an ineffective coward's way out. The more detailed a mic is, the more you pay in technique. The enunciation is a matter of taste, like the enunciation of Bob Dylan or Jim Croce or Tom Petty or whoever. There's lots of superstars and great poets I can't understand half the time. Work on the sibilance, and learn to flirt with that proximity field and don't hit it like a bug on a windshield. I would also back off the reverb or delay on the vocal a tick. That's also a matter of taste. Everybody's a critic. See what I meant about that mic? It makes you work, which can be good for you. Accept the challenge, it sounds pretty good, basically, for a handheld dynamic. -Richie
 
I wasn't trying to be "cold". I just listed the problem areas.

The OP said "Please forgive the vocal performance" and then rattled off a list of disclaimers. Fine, but if it's not your best effort and you know it, what kind of comments do you want? It IS boomy, noisy, and it sounds like you have marbles in your mouth. How does it compare to the old version? I don't know. They're both pretty rough. That's just the way it is. How do you fix it? Sing better, for starters. It's not the mic's fault the vocal sounds bad. You don't have to be a classicly trained vocalist. Tom Waits sings like shit, but his vocal tracks still sound good. Then, mix better. The track sounds heavy in the low end and has a weird reverb/room effect. I don't know that mic, so I don't know how to tell you to fix it. But whatever you did, do the opposite.

Again, I'm not trying to be cruel. This is what I hear.
 
Richie: I'm not too worried about people liking my singing or not. Dylan did pretty good for a guy who can't sing. Also, Leonard Cohen used to be pretty popular in the '60's...great poet...crummy singer. But how the hell do you deal with sibilance other than turning the mic a bit off axis and moving even further away...if possible? I get even more sibilance with the PR35...so much so that I hate using it. I don't hear tons of 'boom', but maybe I'm a little deaf. I'll try backing off even more. I'll send you the raw tracks later...maybe you can let me know what you think, if you have the time. they actually sound pretty decent for totally unprocessed tracks...except for the low cut eq.
 
jaz49 said:
O.K. fair enough...but how about beginning with some positive suggestions as to how to make it better.
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I positively think you should work on your mic technique, and that you're in the right place and asking the right questions.

Keep in mind that yours are the only ears here you need to please. We're just offering opinions.

Try different placement, and find the ways to move your head relative to the mic to get the volume and tone you are looking for. Very little time spent with a vocal coach or reputable recording engineer will yield big results if you can apply what you learn.
 
Greg_L said:
The track sounds heavy in the low end and has a weird reverb/room effect.
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O.K. that's a start. The room needs some more treatment. That's a positive suggestion. Thanks for pointing it out. Maybe cut more of the low end or move away from the 'proximity field'.

I wasn't looking for a critique of my singing...but of the recording itself. I was only testing the mic with the rest of my vocal chain. As I wrote, it was a quick take late at night...I was not trying to make a gold record. I'm trying to figure what I need to do to make a better recording, not to be a better singer. So let's please stick to that.
 
jaz49 said:
O.K. that's a start. The room needs some more treatment. That's a positive suggestion. Thanks for pointing it out. Maybe cut more of the low end or move away from the 'proximity field'.

I wasn't looking for a critique of my singing...but of the recording itself. I was only testing the mic with the rest of my vocal chain. As I wrote, it was a quick take late at night...I was not trying to make a gold record. I'm trying to figure what I need to do to make a better recording, not to be a better singer. So let's please stick to that.
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Okay, but my point was how can you expect us to give useful comments to a track that was half-assed? Singing aside, "quick take" and "late at night" tell me that you just whipped some shit out. That's like recording an out of tune guitar played with your feet and then asking how it sounds. If you want serious opinions, then I think you should give a serious effort.
 
Greg_L said:
Okay, but my point was how can you expect us to give useful comments to a track that was half-assed? Singing aside, "quick take" and "late at night" tell me that you just whipped some shit out. That's like recording an out of tune guitar played with your feet and then asking how it sounds. If you want serious opinions, then I think you should give a serious effort.
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You're totally missing the point. I DID make a serious effort to record the take properly. I've heard some truly wretched singing by Bob Dylan...and maybe mine was somewhat half assed, but you can still comment on the recording. Dylan's studio recordings were first rate regardless of the singing. That's all I was asking. I could record elephant farts, and you could still comment on the recording itself...assuming you know what a good elephant fart should sound like. Anyhow, you already did comment on the recording, in your remarks on the 'boom' and the sibilance...and that's all I was looking for.
 
First of all, your feud with one of the best performers and mixers on this site is dimwitted.

Second, what you need to do (and this is the help you were asking for and I'll make it plain and simple so there is no mistaking what I am telling you to do):

1. Buy a pop filter

2. Place it on the mic stand so that you can adjust the filter to be in line with your mouth, nose and lower chin.

3. Move it 6 - 8 inches AWAY from the mic and toward you.

4. Keep your mouth 6-8 inches away from the pop filter.

This will do two things right off the bat: it will take away some of the boominess from the proximity; it will take out a lot of the esses, pops and lessen mouth and breathing sounds.

The next thing you need to do is get a better handle on using eq, compressors and reverb.

And don't submit a half-ass effort for critique because it's equal to asking me to rate fingernails on a chalkboard. It's hard to listen to, and puts the listener in a mood to give the crap you received.

Take my advice to heart, retrack, and post a real effort.

Oh, and if you have spent any time at all in the mic forum, then you know that not all "vocal" mics work on all vocalists. Each mic make will enhance different frequencies. If you tried everything that I told you about and it still sounds like ass, that mic was not meant for your voice.

Have a good day!:)
 
Rokket said:
First of all, your feud with one of the best performers and mixers on this site is dimwitted.
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I'm not feuding. Where do you get that from? And, it's totally irrelevant who he is...he still miss-read the intent of my post. If someone is misreading what I am asking, and I point that out, that's called communication. It's **not** feuding. I'm trying to get some simple feedback...advise... on recording/tracking, nothing more. If the recording sounds like sh^t...fine... I honestly want to know that... and to find out how to make it better. Simple enough request? But, I was **not** asking about the singing...your criticism of that is purely gratuitous....in other words a cheap shot.

The rest of your message was mostly spot on to what I was asking. Thank-you for that. You have a good day too.
 
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jaz49 said:
I'm not feuding. Where do you get that from? And, it's totally irrelevant who he is...he still miss-read the intent of my post. If someone is misreading what I am asking, and I point that out, that's called communication. It's **not** feuding. I'm trying to get some simple feedback...advise... on recording/tracking, nothing more. If the recording sounds like sh^t...fine... I honestly want to know that... and to find out how to make it better. Simple enough request? But, I was **not** asking about the singing...your criticism of that is purely gratuitous....in other words a cheap shot.

The rest of your message was mostly spot on to what I was asking. Thank-you for that. You have a good day too.
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You're welcome.

And as far as criticizing your singing, I was not. I was only telling you that posting bad examples will get you flamed. I am not one to talk about someone else's singing. I can't sing for shit.
 
Rokket said:
You're welcome.

And as far as criticizing your singing, I was not. I was only telling you that posting bad examples will get you flamed. I am not one to talk about someone else's singing. I can't sing for shit.
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O.K. fair enough. I thought you were implying the singing was like fingernails on a blackboard. But, what's with all the flaming bull sh^t these days? Why do people think it's even necessary or relevant to do that? If a recording is really bad, it's simple enough to point out what could be done to improve it (as you very succinctly did) without the big ego trip that people get into. I know a guy who sometimes sings a bit off key. I doubt he's even aware of it. It would be an easy cheap shot to flame his comments board, but why would anyone even bother with such B.S.?
 
jaz49 said:
I'm not feuding. Where do you get that from? And, it's totally irrelevant who he is...he still miss-read the intent of my post. If someone is misreading what I am asking, and I point that out, that's called communication. It's **not** feuding. I'm trying to get some simple feedback...advise... on recording/tracking, nothing more. If the recording sounds like sh^t...fine... I honestly want to know that... and to find out how to make it better. Simple enough request? But, I was **not** asking about the singing...your criticism of that is purely gratuitous....in other words a cheap shot.

The rest of your message was mostly spot on to what I was asking. Thank-you for that. You have a good day too.
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You are misunderstanding what I'm saying and I didn't misread anything. I know exactly what you said. Here's what I'm saying - Your shit singing IS part of the reason this sounds so bad. But that's fine, lots of shit singers still record a decent sounding vocal take. You mentioned Dylan, I mentioned Tom Waits. I get it. I listen to punk rock and I'm no singer myself. But a bad recording makes shit singing a thousand times worse for the listener - which is us - the very people you're asking to give opinions. You're not Bob Dylan or Tom Waits. If you're purposely trying to sound like shit, then that's a shame. If you just naturally sound like shit, then that's cool. Just get a better recording of it. I already pointed out what needs addressing. It's bottom-heavy, sibilant, noisy, and too roomy on top of being performed poorly. That's all pretty self-explanatory. Fixing it should be pretty easy.
 
jaz49 said:
O.K. fair enough. I thought you were implying the singing was like fingernails on a blackboard. But, what's with all the flaming bull sh^t these days? Why do people think it's even necessary or relevant to do that? If a recording is really bad, it's simple enough to point out what could be done to improve it (as you very succinctly did) without the big ego trip that people get into. I know a guy who sometimes sings a bit off key. I doubt he's even aware of it. It would be an easy cheap shot to flame his comments board, but why would anyone even bother with such B.S.?
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No one is on an ego-trip or is flaming you. At all.
 
Greg_L said:
If you just naturally sound like shit, then that's cool. Just get a better recording of it.
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Ah...finally we're on the same wave length!:D I am not arguing...the singing IS bad, but I was honestly NOT trying to make it suck. I was watching the levels and the mic position and just not paying a lot of attention to the singing. Once I get used to the mic I can concentrate on the singing. Your suggestions as to improving the recording are appreciated...honestly! Since you most likely have a lot more mixing experience than I do maybe you could take a listen to the original recording on my music page. I actually did try to sing that well...at least as well as my meager talent will allow. But I did that probably over a year ago, and I know I probably made a lot of mistakes mixing and tracking. http://www.soundclick.com/lejaz
 
sounds like kareokee to me. Mix is off balance with a clicky kick and it sounds like you're trying to inhale the mic.
 
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