Joining ASCAP/BMI?

[mjr]

I understand if I join ASCAP or BMI, I can simply request their application, fill it out, and return it. Is that correct? From what I know, in order to do this, you must be published (maybe I'm thinking of copyright here).

Should I copyright first, then join ASCAP or BMI?

Which one is better? Can I put songs on my own CD that I submit to ASCAP or BMI? For instance, the CD that I'm recording now will have 8 songs on it. Can I still submit those 8 songs to ASCAP or BMI, or would that not do me any good?

What happens if one of my submitted songs gets selected by an artist to be recorded (If it's a song I wrote, but didn't record)?

 

[distortedrumble]

I joined ascap without being published.....actually i havent sent them any work yet and i joined in 2002 right before the fall of my band....but the new one is getting ready to have some stuff copywritten at the end of the week.

you can join and then have it copywritten....they have a section for that now i think. or you can send the $30 check and the music off to the government copyright office and have it done that..

yes you can put your songs on your own cd and submit it to ascap..how else would you do it? you can send 8 songs or 1 by 1 if you want. that last question i have no idea about.

 

[Elusion]

on the last question, if the song is registered with sesac, ascap, bmi, etc... then the artist has to get your permission and as well you get paid every time it is played or used. If the song is not registered, but it is copyrighted then you have grounds for filing a lawsuit claiming intellectual rights or something like that. If it is not copyrighted or registered well then you are fu**ed and you would have to find a way of proving that you wrote the song. You can always copyright the cheap way by mailing yourself a copy of the cd and keeping the envelope sealed(the post mark date shows when the song was written and recorded) but im not sure of how well that works anymore.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Actually, part of what Elusion said is not true. Once your song is registered with ASCAP, nobody needs your permission to record it. ASCAP does not collect mechanical royalties on recordings, that's done by the Harry Fox agency. Mechanicals are currently .08 per song, per CD produced, or .01 per minute of recording, whichever is greater. It would be .18 per copy for "Alice's Restaurant"! ASCAP collects royalties from clubs who use live bands doing covers of registerd songs, which no one can really keep track of, so you won't get paid for that, and more importantly, when your songs get played on the radio, which they do keep track of, and you will get paid. I recently received my first royalty check from ASCAP, because there are two stations actually playing my album! Woo Hoo!
It is simply not true that you need someone's permission to record their song. All you have to do is pay the mechanical royalties. That's why they are called mechanical. God help you though, if you want to adapt or satirize someone else's song, or record a piece that is derived from someone else's copywrited work. Then you do need their permission. You also need their permission for the use of the piece in any activity other than radio broadcast, such as a commercial, political announcement, or American Idol. I'm sitting up nights worrying about it-LOL.-Richie

 

[junplugged]

Which one is better? I've been pondering that question for too long. I have no idea. I don't even know how to find out. I'm not even sure it matters much since I'm not really considering that my recordings will make it to radio or be covered by others in a live situation and even if they do cover it live, I'll never see those pennies, there's no sampling of live performance anyway.... not sure how that gets dispersed or if it's so little that it gets absorbed in administrative expenses, like paying that guy who goes out to little mom and pop coffee houses and scares them by threatening fines if they don't pay up, then they stop having live music there. It happens all the time, every day, gee, thanks ascap/bmi, now fewer places to play....

I'd just like to find out what, if anything either of them can provide for independent artists or extremely small or vanity labels. Maybe the question is, "Which one do the indy's like better?" I guess I could send out some emails and wait a few weeks....

 

[distortedrumble]

hey richard...this may be too intrusive so let me know if i'm stepping but what was the song, how many times did they play it and how much did they pay you?

 

[Richard Monroe]

hey richard...this may be too intrusive so let me know if i'm stepping but what was the song, how many times did they play it and how much did they pay you?

Well, I don't have an itemized list, but WCDO has played every cut on the album at least twice, and another station in Eureka, California, didthe whole album in one pop, with the live interview. It will be coming up on SUNY Binghamton's campus radio station, possibly with a live studio appearance. All told, I may actually net $12 or so in royalties! Guess I'll have to buy that Brauner-LOL. It is satisfying, though. I figure every bit of air time I get increases the miniscule possibility that somebody who really can make a platinum album will cover one of my songs. What the hell...
On the other hand, there are already some concrete benefits to joining ASCAP. First, Musician's Friend gives me a 5% on line discount, which on a pair of Neumanns, was about $75. Also, they have a grant program for artists that work in venues that receive less publicity. As much of my fan base is in The Society for Creative Anachronism, a non-profit educational group that re-creates the Middle Ages, I'm a candidate for an ASCAP stipend, which amounts to free money that can be used for gear or production costs. All this, and no yearly dues. Works for me. Please note that when they say your music has to have been "published", that means by legal definition, which is pretty loose. That can mean any printing, on line distribution (such as Nowhereradio), any televised, broadcast, or video taped recording, or a project CD. Pretty much, all you have to do to get into ASCAP is make a credible argument that any piece of music that you were involved with in any way was sold to some fool for a dollar.-Richie

 

[Elusion]

Richard,
Thanks for clearing up my error on that one. I guess i was misinformed on what goes on with ascap. All the legal BS that goes along with making music can get quite confusing.

Paul