Johnny Cash- Hurt

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andycerrone

andycerrone

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I really want to get a guitar sound like in the song "hurt" from Johnny Cash. It's really 'in your face', as far as acoustic guitars go. I can tell it was recorded twice and panned hard each way, but I have no idea how he was able to get such a clear and raw string sound. Anyways, anyone familiar with the song have any ideas on what kind of mic he used?
 
I know Ruben love ribbons on acoutic sticks. So I would guess a ribbon mic in a warm room.
 
chessrock said:
Probably something none of us can afford. :D

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Haha. True. I would love to get something relatively close to that because that is like the 'perfect' acoustic sound, in my humble opinion...
 
It sounds decent, but certainly not unattainable.

I wouldn't be asking so much what mic to use as I would be trying to find out what kind of guitar he was playing.

A decent, mostly flat small diaphragm condenser positioned just right, and in a room that's well-treated, could get you in the ballpark ... so I don't think "what mic was used" is all that relevent.
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chessrock said:
It sounds decent, but certainly not unattainable.

I wouldn't be asking so much what mic to use as I would be trying to find out what kind of guitar he was playing.

A decent, mostly flat small diaphragm condenser positioned just right, and in a room that's well-treated, could get you in the ballpark ... so I don't think "what mic was used" is all that relevent.
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Well a well treated room is pretty much impossible in my situation, and my guitar has a great sound (Taylor 213 I believe?), but my guitar doesn't sound like that at all. Granted, my mic is an SP C-1, an LDC, so that's probably it.

I believe he used a lot of Martins, so I can't imagine that it could be THAT much different of a sound.
 
And I'm getting the SDC's from the Naiant drum kit, not sure if those will get me closer.
 
i expected a lot better from this recording! his voice seems to completely not match the guitars, its just sort of resting on top of them. sounds like any SDC and a good compressor will help you out immensely. i think the material and thickness of your pick would make a bigger difference than which sdc!
 
treymonfauntre said:
i expected a lot better from this recording! his voice seems to completely not match the guitars, its just sort of resting on top of them. sounds like any SDC and a good compressor will help you out immensely. i think the material and thickness of your pick would make a bigger difference than which sdc!
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I just love the guitar in it. Not the way it was mixed. Something about the guitar just sticks to me.
 
Yeah, it sounds like a Martin Dreadnought to me too. I'd try to find a dry sounding room. If you don't have one, hang up some blankets. Try to block reflections from hard surfaces.

It's hard to get a great sound from that mic. I've used it before, and while it seems like it could work for a lot of voices, I would rather use an SM57 for acoustic guitar.

You might try to find an Oktava MC-012 or maybe even more useful, a really nice dynamic mic, like an EV RE20, or a Sennheiser 441. Even if you upgraded your entire studio to awesome ass world professional, those mics will still get used.

I do think the Studio Projects is a killer when it comes to acoustic guitar. It sounds scooped in the mids, w/ a really bright high end.

Doesn't the video of Hurt show him singing and playing into a couple AKG 414's? One might be attainable, but they're pricy. But the guitar and room are more important. Try letting your strings go dead. Johnny Cash on the American albums doesn't really have a classic beggars banquet sort of dead strings sound, but you'd be surprised how much better things sound, especially with a mic that has an exaggerated high end like the S.P.

Anyway,

FWIW, the Johnny Cash song sounds to me like:
Martin Dreadnought + Condensor (or maybe not) + not very live room + 1176 compressor. But I don't really know. Just guesses.

I don't think it matters if it's a condensor or not. But I'd really try to find something very flat in the high end and midrange, and then compress pretty hard.
 
Jonk said:
Yeah, it sounds like a Martin Dreadnought to me too. I'd try to find a dry sounding room. If you don't have one, hang up some blankets. Try to block reflections from hard surfaces.

It's hard to get a great sound from that mic. I've used it before, and while it seems like it could work for a lot of voices, I would rather use an SM57 for acoustic guitar.

You might try to find an Oktava MC-012 or maybe even more useful, a really nice dynamic mic, like an EV RE20, or a Sennheiser 441. Even if you upgraded your entire studio to awesome ass world professional, those mics will still get used.

I do think the Studio Projects is a killer when it comes to acoustic guitar. It sounds scooped in the mids, w/ a really bright high end.

Doesn't the video of Hurt show him singing and playing into a couple AKG 414's? One might be attainable, but they're pricy. But the guitar and room are more important. Try letting your strings go dead. Johnny Cash on the American albums doesn't really have a classic beggars banquet sort of dead strings sound, but you'd be surprised how much better things sound, especially with a mic that has an exaggerated high end like the S.P.

Anyway,

FWIW, the Johnny Cash song sounds to me like:
Martin Dreadnought + Condensor (or maybe not) + not very live room + 1176 compressor. But I don't really know. Just guesses.

I don't think it matters if it's a condensor or not. But I'd really try to find something very flat in the high end and midrange, and then compress pretty hard.
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Well in the next week or so I believe I should have a matched pair of Naiant MSH-1O's, any idea how those would hold up?
 
andycerrone said:
Well in the next week or so I believe I should have a matched pair of Naiant MSH-1O's, any idea how those would hold up?
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They're great little mics.

I'd say, since you're in a bad room, record into a closet packed full of clothes. Put the mic right in front of them and record up close to the mic.

It will really help to get an 'in your face', detailed recording with little influence from the room. I usually mic the 15th-17th fret or right next to the edge of the sound hole from about 5" to a 1' away.

Also, a set of new strings help a great deal.
 
Also, what chessrock said is right on.

The best thing you can do for acoustic guitar recording is get a great sounding guitar.

After that, almost any decent LDC or SDC mic will do the job. The MSH-1Os would be fine.
 
You can hear my Sigma

Hi,

I recorded "The Gift" with a pair of MSH-1Os on a Jecklin disc. You can hear it here.

http://deltaboogie.com/hairylarryland

I don't use picks so I don't get Johnny Cash's sound. But I would say I'm obviously influenced by Luther Perkins.

I like to build GoBo from 1 inch acoustic fiberglass by glueing burlap over them. No wood, no frame, just 2'x4' rigid fiberglass wrapped in burlap. I get the burlap at WalMart for $2-$3 a yard and use the quick dry tacky glue also from WalMart. Get the fiberglass with the aluminum foil on the back. I used the Knauf product from HVAC because I couldn't get the Owens Corning 703 locally.

These make a lot of difference placed behind the mic or at reflection points or in front of the mirrors and windows, etc. Move them around and listen carefully to your tapes. They make more difference than the mics sometimes.

I also like using the omnis in close (6 inches) to the guitar. I try the twelfth fret and on the wood near the bridge. The twelfth fret is the exact center of the strings and that is where the strings have the most energy. The wood sounds different than the strings. You can use these stereo or mix them to a mono track controlling how much string and how much wood.

I can rattle on. Recording acoustic guitar has become an obsession.

Oh, and mics? MSH-1Os, Realistic 1070B, Audio Technica Pro37, Superlux CM-H8C, Audio Technica AT4054. I got all these reasonable. (some more reasonable than others)

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
Stiff strings would be a part of the equation on his sound sound also, he's always (and alot of old school country guys) very firm and almost rough on his guitar, even in those kinds of songs.
 
Hey Andy, I think the MSH -- or really any flat, omni condenser -- would work great for that kind of thing.

Listening to it again ... what makes the sound happen is the fact that it sounds so natural and intimate. Like the guitars are right in front of you.

Getting that kind of sound is really going to be all about just playing a guitar that sounds like that ... and then mic'ing it up with a really accurate, unflattering mic (positioned the right way) so that you're recording the event or sound as it is, in all of it's glory. If you really listen to the recording, you should be able to tell there's no real studio flattery going on there. All of the squeeks and scrapes and warts, etc. are all there.

And that's pretty much what those omni small-diaphragm deals are all about, so I think they'd be a great place to start.
 
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Well, these are all the mics I've got to work with right now, which would you suggest until I have the cash to buy something new?

Studio Projects C-1
Sennheiser E609
SM-57's
Shure 560
Matched pair of Naiant MSH-1O
Naiant MSH-1C's
Naiant MSH-1K
 
Dumby said:
Stiff strings would be a part of the equation on his sound sound also, he's always (and alot of old school country guys) very firm and almost rough on his guitar, even in those kinds of songs.
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So Dumby, Why The neg rep saying That my thought was "The Dumbest Of the week"? The question was pondered what sort of guitar he is playing. Whats it gotta do with you whether or not i think its a Martin D28 or Not, Incidently It is! So Because I say its a Martin D28 (which i think we can all agree is a massive factor in the chain) and you mention the strings. Certainly the strings will have a factor. So we both mention something in the Chain and my thought is Dumb, Get a life You idiot. By the way i'll be signing my rep, you Coward!
 
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