jcm 2000 dsl 100 recording...

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wannabecomedeat

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ok,

The drum is done, the bass is done, but there's still the guitar to do, in a melodic death metal band. The guitar amp: JCM2000 dsl 100. I tried to record it like 20 times and always ended up being unable to capture it right. I love the sound of that amp (actually more than a stock triple rectifier) but I can't seem to get it to SOUND while recording.

I've read about everything here since 2 years, tried it, but I've still never been able to get anything good from that amp.

So, anyone here ever recorded something great with this amp? Anyone knows of a recording that was done with the jcm2000? Something I could refer as a sound comparison?

Anyone has a personal hint?

I have:
-a good guitar
-active duncan pickups (CRAZY pickups :) )
-I even bought an attenuator, but it kills the highs, sounds bad
-dmp3 preamp
-shure 57
-superlux sh8a condenser (works good on guitars sometimes)
-2 studio project b1 (sounds boxy on amps)
I can also borrow a shure 57 and a seinheiser md421 from a friend if needed

thanks for taking the time to read.
 
Could you post clips of the sounds you've been getting? It's hard to help if we don't know what the problem is. What have you tried doing?
 
I have nothing new yet, and I didn't keep anything I did before :( can't record before saturday. I'm more in a preparation process :rolleyes:
 
First thing I have found is that many people try and record their amps at to high an output for their given room and signal chain. Try backing things off a bit. Second thing, keep an eye on your bass knob. Many people tend to push that guy a little hard to get the room to keep up with the woof of the cab. I know it is hard to do, but when setting your tone, try not to think of just how YOUR tone sounds where you are standing, but give a little more thought to how the tone you are getting fits the mix and hits the mic, especially when micing up close. If you are using room mics this will obviously change this approach a bit. As far as mics go, I would avoid the condensor on the Marshall until you are getting solid tracks from either the 57 or the 421. At that point then maybe try and integrate the condensor into the signal chain. Mic placement can be a real key with big high gain stacks as well. For a 57 or even a 421 I would reccomend placing themic about 2 inches off the grill. The edge of the speaker is where most of the sound will come from, especially the deep woof and push of the speaker itself. You may want to try placing the mic about 2 inches in from the edge of the speaker. Try pointing it straight at the cab and then try pointing the mic at a 30-45 degree angle towards the dust bubble in the center. This angle will help reduce a little of the woof (that on tape can often turn out as muck). I have also noticed that when recording a large stack it can be helpful to add additional mics to the other speakers in the cab. Even if they are all the same mic at the same angles. If you do this, record the cab at a little lower level than you might think. Once you recombine the tracks in the mix you will find that there is plenty of power still in the sound. Also make sure that your preamp is nowhere near clipping. This should be done even if you are only using 1 mic and 1 channel. When recording a high gain stack with a thick distortion it can be hard to tell by ear if you are listening to the break up of the guitar/amp/speaker chain or if you are introducing more distortion (and a less pleasent distortion) from your mic/preamp/converter stage. I have seen many tone issues blamed on the amp when it was really the recording stage that blew the sound.
 
I record using a JCM2000 DSL50 and I think its a pretty harsh sounding ampe compared to the older models of JCMs.

I wouldnt use the amp distortion on it anyway as it sucks, and is really muddy.
back off on the low and high knobs and play about with the mid knob.
Try different settings of the lo end button and the high end button (cant remember what they are called :) )

If you get any decent results please let me in on your techniques.

Cheers,
Eck
 
I don't generally think of it as a "death metal" type amp.

Even at higher gains.

A Peavey 5150, on the other hand, can pretty much do that kind of thing no problem on the right settings.
 
I record a JCM 900 2500 half stack fairly regularly, and I'd like to make two suggestions.

First, the amp (any amp) sounds different with your ear (or mic) right in front of one of the Celestion 12's ("close-mic'ed") as compared to what the guitarist hears five or six feet off the floor. If you like what you're hearing at regular ear-level, try mic'ing it at ear-level, exactly where it sounds the best to you.

Second, as someone else pointed out, you might need less distortion from the amp when recording, especially if your track sounds overly bright and crispy. Back off on the gain pot, and maybe even the treble control.

Good luck!
 
Having owned most of the JCM amps, I can confidently say that the DSL50 sounds very different. You would think that it would basically just be a DSL or TSL with less wattage, but that specific head acts very differently. I have always been able to make it sound "OK", but every time I have had it in the studio with other guys, the TSL 100 I have sitting next to it instantly puts the DSL50 to shame. I do not know what happened with the DSL series, but they do not seem to have that Marshall magic that the rest of the JCM's have:(

I also would not want to start out micing an amp at ear level. Generally speaking if that is your primary source signal it will lack a lot of power and begin to get a lot of room wash.
 
xstatic said:
I also would not want to start out micing an amp at ear level. Generally speaking if that is your primary source signal it will lack a lot of power and begin to get a lot of room wash.
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I guess my point is that any amp sounds different at ear-level compared to right in front of the speaker. If the close-mic'ed sound is different than the ear-level sound, you can either stick your head in front of a raging Marshall stack and try to make it sound the same as is sounds at ear-level, or you can save your hearing and mic the amp where it sounds the best, which might be at ear-level. Especially if you're recording a given guitar with only one mic. You might be surprised how many times this has been done, simply because a given amp sounds better off-axis, with room reflections and delays. ;)
 
I use a JCM 2000 quite a bit. I find an SM57 on the cab and something like an AT4033 back a few feet works great.
 
Micter said:
I use a JCM 2000 quite a bit. I find an SM57 on the cab and something like an AT4033 back a few feet works great.
Click to expand...

Do you have a sample somewhere I could download and see how well you did?

Thanks to everyone by the way, nice info!
 
kid klash said:
I guess my point is that any amp sounds different at ear-level compared to right in front of the speaker. If the close-mic'ed sound is different than the ear-level sound, you can either stick your head in front of a raging Marshall stack and try to make it sound the same as is sounds at ear-level, or you can save your hearing and mic the amp where it sounds the best, which might be at ear-level. Especially if you're recording a given guitar with only one mic. You might be surprised how many times this has been done, simply because a given amp sounds better off-axis, with room reflections and delays. ;)
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I would be surprised. I would be very surprised if this was common at all to mic a marshall stack with one mic and that mic being at ear level several feet away. I would not be surprised to find out that there was one of many mics placed at that location that was somewhat blended in or leaned on for an effect of sorts. Typically, high gain stacks are not mic'ed in this fashion on their own unless the room really is THAT good. My bet is that for the vast majority here their rooms are not like that.

As far as putting your head in a cab... You will never get the cab to sound the same up close as you do far away with a big stack. Once the stack hits that kind of volume you can not accurately decipher it from up close so you really don't know how good or bad it does or doesn't sound. It may actually sound much better but the sheer volume and what it does to your hearing when you stick your head there may completely mask that. What I typically do is have someone move the mic around for a bit while I listen in headphones or on the monitors. This is the only way to know what you are really about to lay down. Pay close attention sometime and have a listen at just how different things sound once you have recorded them compared to standing there and hearing them. Its just a fact of life. We listen differently and hear different things once we take the other senses out of the loop.
 
ecktronic said:
I record using a JCM2000 DSL50 and I think its a pretty harsh sounding ampe compared to the older models of JCMs.

I wouldnt use the amp distortion on it anyway as it sucks, and is really muddy.
back off on the low and high knobs and play about with the mid knob.
Try different settings of the lo end button and the high end button (cant remember what they are called :) )

If you get any decent results please let me in on your techniques.

Cheers,
Eck
Click to expand...


I actually agree with you here, I've recorded several jcm2000's and never really liked the way any of them sounded, very harsh and fizzy. That being said I actually liked the way they sound when not in a recording. Also if you're using more than one mic stop, just try with one first and go from there.
 
wannabecomedeat said:
Do you have a sample somewhere I could download and see how well you did?

Thanks to everyone by the way, nice info!
Click to expand...

Not right now as the site is going through a server upgrade.
 
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