Jazz guitars

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a_goodlett

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i've had jazz theory under my belt for a while now, but within the past few months i have been trying, and successfully at that, to get away from the Pentatonic-Blues based improvs and explore some different styles. i figure that jazz has endless possibilities in terms of where it can evovle. so, to get to my point, what are things you people look for in a jazz guitar? for instance, does it have to be a hollowbody? later cats
 
It doesn't have to be a hollowbody or a semi-hollowbody but those are great choices for jazz. Jazz can mean a lot of different things, but usually you are looking for a guitar with great clean sounds that has clarity when playing extended jazz chords. Solidbody guitars will work too but they might not be my first choice. Using the right amp is probably as important as the choice of guitar.

Gibson, Gretsch, Hamer, Ibanez, and Guild all make some great jazz guitars. www.guitarworld.com and www.guitarplayer.com have some reviews on their sites. It's difficult to find them on the new GuitarPlayer site but they are there somewhere....they really messed that site up.

Good luck.
 
If you approach the question as a systems analyst would, you start with what the need is, and then progress to what acoustic characteristics will deliver to that need, and finally to designs, prices and brands that offer choices.

Jazz guitar can be played on any number of different designs of guitars. But because each design has its own acoustic identity, musicians tend to gravitate towards designs that work for the style of music they find themselves playing.

When jazz was developing as a genre in the early 20th century, the music paralleled the development of the guitar as a solo instrument. Unamplified, the instrument could not compete with the volume of the orchestra. The first stringed instrument that could compete, and the first to be identified with developing forms of jazz, was the tenor (4-string) banjo. This is a design with a floating bridge and a very loud soundboard - percussive (well, it is a drum head, isn't it?!) with a sound that could cut right through a loud ensemble. Violins share that ability to cut through the background - also using a floating bridge design, and a carved top as a transducer.

So the guitar developed into a carved design - arched top and back, having a percussive and powerful tone that could cut through the rest of the band. The attack and decay are both sharp; there is comparatively little sustain when plucked, and the volume is way, way up for an acoustic stringed instrument. Perfect for rhythm playing.

The guitar as a solo or lead instrument really developed with Charlie Christian and his work with Gibson - the first electric guitar was a carved top instrument with a magnetic pickup. And so it went. True archtops - carved tops and backs - are perhaps the most difficult stringed instrument to build, with the exception of the violin groups. That's one reason why they are expensive, and why most affordable archtops are pressed or laminated wood - not carved. An exception is the Tacoma archtop, a true acoustic carved top and back instrument which is available for under $2500. CNC routing is a marvelous thing.

You can learn more by looking at Linda Manzer's pages...

http://www.manzer.com/

I think you just turned a corner into a glimpse of Nirvana, myself.
 
JESUS! those guitars are definately sexy guitars! i thought the jazzcat was looked pretty damn good. man i wish i wasnt 15 so i could have a job and actually get some equipment that match the skills=) at the moment i am trying to do an amp upgrade. i have a peavey bandit, and i wish i wouldn't of bought it. so now i'm gonna go buy me a nice fender bandmaster. so, a jazz guitar is off in the distance for now. what do you people think of the Gibson archtops? later
 
The Gibson archtops, you mean like the ES-335 or ES-175. Total pieces of junk. ;) Seriously, I think they are great guitars and they have a very balanced, woody tone. Eventually I would like to own a ES-335.

The Hamer Newport and Guild Starfire are two other guitars that come to mind. The Newport is one of the best guitars I've ever played.....I don't remember the price but I think it was under 2 grand. There's quite a few good ones out there, it's just a matter of finding the stores that carry them so you can play them. I play a little jazz with a Hamer Echotone. It's a 335-type semi-hollowbody that works pretty good. It's not in the same league as the other ones I mentioned but it gives you that vintage vibe at a reasonable price.
 
If you're in your teens, there's no point in your drooling over $6,000.00 jazzboxes just yet. It's enough to know that they exist and that someday you will own one. In the meantime, look at the Epiphone Regent or Emperor Joe Pass models. They are real guitars, between 2" and 3" depth, with laminated archtops, one or two humbucking pickups, a cutaway, and very nice necks. Nothing shabby about either of these, although the electronics will benefit from an upgrade when you get some more money set aside. Under a thousand bucks.

And you can get them used. Check this baby out - the next link. In fact, you better call them before I do. What am I giving you this link for? What a dummy. I should call them myself. The price is right and the folks who work there are trustworthy. It's where I bought my Taylor, an 815C, sight unseen, halfway across the country.

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/40U-2909.htm


And for more eye candy in the $30K range, check this link out.

http://www.benedetto-guitars.com/models.html

Now go spend some money.:D
 
i have always equated Epiphone as Gibsons version of Fender's Squire. i believe i am mistaken. all the squires i have ever played were crap IMHO. i am glad that when my parents bought me my first guitar almost 2 years ago for christmas they got me a MIM strat. I have replaced the pickups and have done some custom electronics on it. hell i love it.

Treeline, i think i have a plan to get a a good jazz guitar and not spend a bunch of my own cash, it requires major STRATEGERY(quoted from mr. G. W. Bush). check this out: My dad plays 2nd chair bass in the Indiapolis Symphony Orchestra. When i was 4, maybe 5, he "encouraged" me to play an instrument, i was more like forced.
i quit when i was 12 because even though i was real good at the violin, it wasnt my thing. so then i played sax in band in middle school, but it wasnt a real serious thing. so, when i was real excited about wanting a guitar, he got excited too. For the past year and a half all i have done(besides girls,friends, and school) is study music theory and play my guitar. so, my dad is real happy about that and he's helped my with my theory and stuff. i've had a couple blues jams with him, it was....interesting.it was real fun and sounded pretty good, but the style wasnt all there(he's strictly a classical player, so i didnt expect it to be like a real groove machine). so suffice it to say, he's pro-music and its kinda like a live-vicarious thing i guess. So the Master plan is that i think i can do some serious scheming and get an epi emperor. if it works, i'm slick shit.
 
Bandmaster= good choice. Best clean sounding amp I ever heard and unlike a lot of Fenders it doesn't matter if you get a black face, silver face, old, or newish. They all have pretty much the same sound, unless you've got an oldie w/those blue-bell speakers. They tend to distort a bit so in that regard I actually like the silver face models better myself. If you plan on NOT distorting your sound I'd go with EV speakers and as high a wattage as the amp allows. And definately 8 ohms. Sometimes you can find a Bandmaster or Super cab with a single 15" speaker too. I think they sound great myself but they're hard to find.

I'm on my third 335 in 20+ years and it's quite versatile. For the most part though, I (like a lot of guys), think the pickups in most 335 style guitars are a bit too punchy for jazz. We tend to roll back on both the tone and volume at the guitar itself to mellow it out a little.

I don't know why you don't hear more guys playing them in a jazz setting but I always loved the front pickup on a tele for clean jazz oriented stuff the best. Ever hear any of Ted Green's stuff? Or an old recording of Jimmy Bryant? A tele actually has the quientisential jazz sound IMHO.

I never did care for archtops. I mean they're great to look at but I just never could get into the sound of them. A bit too springy. they almost sound like they have nylon strings because of that. Not my cup of tea. If I was going to go for a hollow body sound I'd go with a flatter topped guitar like the Gibson 175, 350 or Super 400. I played a 175 for a couple of years and while they're only good at one sound they do it well. Pat Metheny sure makes good use of one.

And lastly I always drooled over Brydlands, Epiphone Emperers, and the old D'angelico NewYorkers, but good luck finding them and the prices are just insane. (Super 400s are almost as pricey depending on the year.) No guitar is worth that kind of money to me. Especially when I think a cheap tele actually sounds better. Roy Buchanan and Danny Gatton ocaasionally played some nice clean jazzy stuff on their teles too. Check it out sometime. That's another guitar that may be even more versatile than the 335. I'd give just about anything to get back my old one.

Don't under-estimate a Les Paul either.
 
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Oh, and I almost forgot one of my all-time fav hollow bodies--the Ibanez George Benson model. Unfortunatly, everytime I ever picked one up I immediately sounded like George! It's just got that sound....

I tend to get worried when I start sounding like other people so I never persued one of those. You're kind of young but have you ever heard his "Breezin" album or the live one with "On Broadway"? Tell me that's not a wondeful tone. But if you get one people will always say, "Man you sound just like George Benson.":rolleyes:
 
Whenever I try to play Benson, it sounds like a bluegrass guitarist imitating what he thinks Benson does... I suppose it goes to prove that it's not the guitar, it's the guitarist that really counts!;)

A_Goodlet, sounds like you should have a long talk with your dad about the big picture. Sounds to me that he probably knows exactly what you're dealing with. You just might find it's one of the best talks you ever had. Why don't you show him this thread? It's all here...

Stick with it, kid - you're on a roll.
:D
 
Treeline said:
Whenever I try to play Benson, it sounds like a bluegrass guitarist imitating what he thinks Benson does... I suppose it goes to prove that it's not the guitar, it's the guitarist that really counts!
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I disagree with that depending on several conditions. First, there are at least three different models of that guitar but only one has those George Benson pickups. As long as you play that particular model and play it clean your gonna have that sound which is so well associated with the man. It's just too recognizable. Second, there are several jazz guitarists that have recorded with it and every one of them sounds like GB. Even playing country on it will still have the GB sound. Unless you affect the sound with something like distortion et al, I don't think you could possibly do anything on that guitar and not sound like GB any more than you could play a clavinet and not sound like Stevie Wonder. Show me somebody that has. I'm not saying it can't be done but it hasn't yet. Maybe someday somebody will come along and turn our heads with it to such a degree that we won't associate the sound with GB anymore or at least not as much but it hasn't happened yet. Has anyone ever been so original sounding on the clavinet that you don't think of Stevie Wonder the minute you hear them? Many have tried....

Just my opinion.
 
I suspect it has something to do with the bass runs I always end up doing...:D
 
Treeline-

Thanks for the link to the "Elderly" website. Pretty cool! Have you ever ordered a guitar (used) from them? Do they have a good reputation?
 
Good people work at that place.

I've ordered from them occasionally over the last twenty years or so, and bought the guitar I use now as a used instrument from them. They are the largest Martin dealer in the world, I believe. I have never had anything less than excellent service there. These guys really love what they do and are good at it. They will not match Guitar Center pricing, but you'll soon learn why if you need any information from them. I'd classify them in the Gruhn / Gryphon league; three way tie for first place.

The neat thing is that you can spot a used instrument on the website inventory, and then call up their showroom and talk to a salesperson who will call the thing up, then go get it from the stock, and play it, examine it, and translate over the phone. "Well, it does have a little belt buckle marking on the back, but it doesn't seem to go through the finish except here in one little spot. Here's a ding on the front, though, that looks like someone maybe hit a mic or something. The gold plating on the Grovers is a little worn but they work fine. It's been refretted in the last couple of years, looks like. Fret # 9 has a litttle rough edge," and so forth.

I spent over half an hour (maybe a full hour) on the phone talking with this guy who held an old Taylor 815C in his hands, going over every inch of it and describing what he found. Then I sent him my $1700; he had earned my trust. The instrument was precisely as he represented. Now I tell other folks the story.


Nice guitar, by the way...:D
 
I agree heartilly with the Elderly recommendation. I ordered a Sunrise preamp from them over the internet once and they answered my emails and did everything else in as timely and professional a manner as you could possibly hope for.

If you're looking for bargain deals on vintage stuff you might try any of the guitar shows around the country. I've only been to one (in St. Louis) and there are always a few guys like you and I who show up just trying to sell a couple of their own guitars and amps etc, and you'll get a much better deal from them than the dealer booths. It's like the world's greatest fleemarket if you're a guitarist and great fun because you never know what you're liable to find at one. It's also a great way to sell something. You don't need to rent a booth either at some of them. Just show up with your guitar or whatever in hand and walk around a bit. People always want to know what you've got and what you'll take for it. I had a buddy of mine take my old 1957 ES-157, along with his own stuff, down to a show in Nashville and sell it like that.
 
random Epi thoughts

My brother has an Epi Joe Pass and it is indeed a nice jazz box.

Back in the late 60s another brother had a girlfriend with an older brother who was a guitar player.He and his buddies were better players than us and we idolized them.His name was Bobby Coleman.One day while visiting there, Bobby told me his uncle played guitar for Louis Armstrong in the 40-50s.Then he pulled out a case from the closet and pulled out the largest archtop electric guitar I have ever seen;super jumbo size with 3 pickups and very heavily gold-plated hardware.He said it was an Epiphone Emporer Zephyr and even a pre-teen rocker like me knew I was seeing something special!

Tom
 
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