Jazz gig

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Kansnatchas

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I've got a four piece jazz group that I'm recording next week. I've never done a jazz group before, and we plan on recording live. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for micing the following instruments and with what type of mics, keeping in mind phase issues (I have a good number of mics at my disposal): Drums, Sax, Upright bass, Guitar
 
my personal opinion would be....
overheads on the drums and maybe a kick mic (kick drum in a typical jazz setting isn't as big of an emphasis as the rest of the kit is...you mainly want to just capture the nuances of what he is playing on the cymbals and toms.
mic the upright a little above the bridge with a dynamic of some sort (if it isn't using an amp)
and assuming the guitar is an electric...just mic the amp with a 57 maybe or a small condenser like the SM81 will work well
as far as sax...either a 57, 421 or SM81...miked facing the inside of the bell.


or just throw up 2-3 mics aimed at the band and let them do their thing.
 
If you're going for a REALLY live feel, you can do it with a bunch of SM57s and some condenser overheads. ;)

Anyways, you pretty much have to do jazz live.

Does your bassist play through a pickup into an amp? I would probably mic the bass and the amp and mix to taste and get a DI line if possible.

I wouldn't begin to know what you should use for the sax. What type is it? (Most likely alto or tenor)
 
I believe the sax is an tenor, the guitar is electric, and the bass has a pickup on the bridge. I'm thinking of running the pickup direct to tape with a DI and micing the bass for the real thump sound. I've also heard of using lapel mics on the player's chest.
 
Kansnatchas said:
I've also heard of using lapel mics on the player's chest.
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actually, you might use the lapel inside the bass opening instead
use a 421 on the sax...it sort of a standard for that
 
when my drum teacher's jazz band plays, they record their gigs with one of those sony stereo minidisc recorders an it sounded really good. as long as the band plays without anyone overpowering anyone else, i would suggest using a couple of room mics. possibly with an omni pattern to pick up sound from both sides.
 
Upright Bass is really tricky and, from my experience, I think the DI off his/her pickup won't be much help. One trick I learned a while back was to wrap a hypercardiod in foam with the capsule sticking out and tuck it in between the tail piece and the body pointing up towards the bridge. It should sound prety good and should be isolated fairly well from the other players. I think I used a Beyerdynamic m201 and was pretty happy. No amp needed. Of course, this all assumes the bass player will allow you to do this.

Good luck.
 
All I record is jazz. I record my own group where I play double bass (upright bass). A lot is going to depend on the room, and the ability to monitor what's getting in to the mics.

Benny is right on with the drums. A stereo pair and maybe a kick. I like to add a mic on the snare in case the drummer is using brushes a lot; brings out that detail if you need it, especially if there is a lot of audience noise. I have my best luck with a spaced pair coming from behind the drummer, like on each side of him - BUT NOT TOO HIGH! Get them as close as possible while still keeping the kit balanced (and not getting hit by the sticks).

I would probably mic the guitar amp the way you would for other styles of music. Sax, a really good dynamic or a small diaphragm condenser clip on if you have one.

Double bass is a bi#ch to record well. If the player does not really dig in and play hard, it can be a quiet instrument and the mic picks up more drums and other stuff than bass. It can also be hard to place a mic close enough where it won't get bumped, or he won't move away from it too often. Generally, the best place is around the soundpost (near the bridge leg on the G-string side which is to the right if you are facing the bass). DO NOT mic the f-hole. You will get nothing but wolfy mud. I use a small clip-on condenser for mine. If you put a mic on a stand, use the one you have with the best off-axis rejection and the least off-axis color. What qbert1 said is good too. You can get a good sound by jaming a mic between the bridge legs or tail piece when you wrap it in a towel or foam - but that one can really depend on the bass / mic / player, etc.. There will be plenty of other stuff bleeding in that mic. Accept that. Mic the cabinet (if he uses one) or take a direct signal, but use it VERY sparingly in the mix, if at all. Watch for phase issues between the bass mic and the drums, since they will be your greatest source of bleed.

On top of that, you can try to place a stereo pair somewhere as if that was your only way to go. Find that sweet spot. Get a good recording that way and add the other tracks only if they are needed.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
 
qbert1 said:
Upright Bass is really tricky and, from my experience, I think the DI off his/her pickup won't be much help. One trick I learned a while back was to wrap a hypercardiod in foam with the capsule sticking out and tuck it in between the tail piece and the body pointing up towards the bridge. It should sound prety good and should be isolated fairly well from the other players. I think I used a Beyerdynamic m201 and was pretty happy. No amp needed. Of course, this all assumes the bass player will allow you to do this.

Good luck.
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This can work well to amplify the bass through a PA, but it's not too good for recording. And a DI from the bass's pickup won't sound very good, either. Leddy has the right idea(s). I like to use a bidirectional ribbon mic for bass, which doubles as a room mic.
 
What kind of a mic position do you use on that bidirectional ribbon for bass? Also, I only have a Royer 122 for that use and my experience with sticking that on a clean guitar amp (experimental) gave me a muddy inarticulate sound.
 
Kansnatchas said:
What kind of a mic position do you use on that bidirectional ribbon for bass? Also, I only have a Royer 122 for that use and my experience with sticking that on a clean guitar amp (experimental) gave me a muddy inarticulate sound.
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I put the mic at least two feet off the bass, about bridge high. Any closer and you're a) getting too much proximity effect, and b) not getting a complete picture of the sound of the bass.

Re: the Royer, I'm surprised. The 121 is known as one of the best electric-guitar mics around. Is the 122 the one with some kinda phantom power?

I don't have a Royer, but I have two AEA R84s. Work great on URB.
 
AGCurry said:
I put the mic at least two feet off the bass, about bridge high. Any closer and you're a) getting too much proximity effect, and b) not getting a complete picture of the sound of the bass.
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That's true, but in a live setting you may have to strike a balance between the best bass sound and having enough isolation, assuming you are shooting for having some isolation. With enough experimentation, you can find a good bass sound at a closer distance.
 
I feel really stupid asking this...but what do you mean by the tail piece of the bass?
 
Redshoes said:
I feel really stupid asking this...but what do you mean by the tail piece of the bass?
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The tail piece is the upside-down-triangle-shaped piece of wood (often made out of ebony) located near the bottom of the front of the bass that holds the strings.
 
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