Jagged fret ends - mild rant

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In the "Is the Studio LP a Real LP?" thread people started talking about the jagged fret ends on cheap/inexpensive guitars and how the pricey LPs don't have that.

Huh????? Every time I've gone to pick up the expensive/overpriced Gibsons (which includes them all), their darned frets are sticking out poking and scraping my fingers! Why in God's name would I want to spead the extra money on something I'm going to have file down anyway?

But it's not just the Gibsons. The Fender Tele's were exactly the same.

I think just think it's rediculous that the manufacturers can't get that part of guitar making a little more fine tuned. For the money we spend on their stuff, this shouldn't be an issue.

I do think it's probably a humidity issue in some cases. But it just bothers me.

Ok, I'm done ranting...

Just don't get me started on tonewoods and solid body electrics...
 
They're not letting their wood dry long enough before shipping them out. Fender especially was having this problem. On everything from their $400 strats up to their $1500 strats. Fender seems to have fixed the problem. The last twenty or thirty new Fender's I've picked up have had perfect necks. But if you go back a few months.. ouch.. they'll cut your hand right open. I haven't seen the problem so much on any other brands tho.
 
as the one who made that comment in that thread, i hear you loud and clear!

that's but one of the reasons i don't (and won't) tend to buy "new" guitars, especially one i haven't played before buying (over the net, etc).

and yeah, it's partly due to them not letting the wood cure......and part of it is sloppy/shoddy workmanship. i'd suspect more of the latter than the former, but you never know.

there is NO excuse for poor fret dressing on a $1000+ guitar. none at all.


cheers,
wade
 
A large part of the problem

is the conditions in the store. Sometimes, stuff will have sat in warehouses, or been subject to particularly bad shipping conditions. They need to acclimate to the store for awhile to be rehydrated. Of course, some stores don't properly control thier humidity. There's one store here, that you can play their low-end stuff and practically have your fingers ripped off. Then you can go across the street and play the very same guitars and they're fine. And this is consistent, month after month, year after year. And the bad one is a small mom-and-pop kinda store, so you would think they would be better. I've talked to the owner about it and he acts like he doesn't really care. And then he wonders why the same guitars hang there for months.

I'll admit, I rarely play any of the high end stuff, but every once in awhile I do, and I've almost never encountered a dried out fretboard on a high end guitar. I think it's because they pay more attention to taking care of them, so in a high-volume store, I can see where Studios might not get the attention of Standards, etc. I have played quite a few Studios, and I've never run into the problem, though.

Now, OLPs on the other hand... :rolleyes:
 
Fusioninspace

what about tonewoods and solid body electrics?

:D :D
 
Mine, too!

Of course I had to look at about 50 or 60 to find one that was to my liking.
 
mrface2112 said:
as the one who made that comment in that thread, i hear you loud and clear!

that's but one of the reasons i don't (and won't) tend to buy "new" guitars, especially one i haven't played before buying (over the net, etc).

and yeah, it's partly due to them not letting the wood cure......and part of it is sloppy/shoddy workmanship. i'd suspect more of the latter than the former, but you never know.

there is NO excuse for poor fret dressing on a $1000+ guitar. none at all.


cheers,
wade
Click to expand...
I'm afraid it's 99% down to quality control. A properly installed and dressed fret will not cut or scratch even if it lifts from the fingerboard or the fingerboard shrinks acroos the grain by a small amount. The big guys all put pressure on their quotas and rely on brand aspiration and loyalty to keep sales volumes up. I know how long and how much most of the major manufacturers factor in for fret finishing and setup. You wouldn't like to hear it. I can tell you how long it takes to do it properly as well and the two don't even come close. On many occasions the retailer or importer/dealer will take steps to get the setup improved. I get to to a lot of pre release and review instruments that arrive here. They get them perfect for doing the rounds and shows but when the bulk comes in they don't. Go figure...

As to tonewoods. The big names get first dibs on most that is harvested these days. We all have our own lines of supply and the economies of scale dictate that the big guys get to boss the loggers and harvesters more than some one like myself. I do have a lot of good contacts that they don't use and never will so we all get the stuff we need in the end. How they treat their wood stocks is also different. I allow at least five years stickered before I use it. The big guys can't afford that luxury. Generally there is nothing wrong with the timbers they use, but the availability of first rate timber is dwindling and the stuff is getting harder to find. The choice and quality of timber is not the issue here though. Quality control and the need to shift units is.
 
muttley600 said:
I'm afraid it's 99% down to quality control.
Click to expand...

I think the guitars made on Friday afternoon are probably thrown together in a hurry. :p
 
The fret dress on my 1998 LP Classic is nothing short of excellent. No problems with jagged frets on it at all, or any of the other LPs that I played the day that I bought it. Or on any LP that I've played other than that.

I'm leaning towards agreeing with the sentiment above that the climate conditions of the guitar's transport and storage would be the biggest factors there. Or it could be the retailer himself. Maybe more discriminating retailers know not to accept instruments with bad fret dresses and send them back to the factory instead of putting them on display for sale.

Now, the fret dress on my Rondo SX bass is a different story. One song and my index finger and thumb of my fretting hand are torn to shreds. Now thats a bad fret dress!
 
Tadpui said:
Now, the fret dress on my Rondo SX bass is a different story. One song and my index finger and thumb of my fretting hand are torn to shreds. Now thats a bad fret dress!
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And mine are perfectly fine.

Which one did you get?
 
Tadpui said:
I'm leaning towards agreeing with the sentiment above that the climate conditions of the guitar's transport and storage would be the biggest factors there. Or it could be the retailer himself. Maybe more discriminating retailers know not to accept instruments with bad fret dresses and send them back to the factory instead of putting them on display for sale.
Click to expand...
Not really, Think about it. Even if the fingerboard did shrink exposing the fret ends or popping the frets up how are they going to be razor sharpened in the process. A correctly dressed fret will have no burr or sharp edges to speak of. Yes they might possibly be uncomfortable to play.

If a retailer sent too many guitars back to the factory, importer or wholesaler they wouldn't hang on to the franchise for long. I've seen hundreds if not thousands of guitars fresh off the factory floor of the big named manufacturers the setup and attention to detail is poor at best. Frets left over the board is not an uncommon problem. You'll find the better outlets do the final setup and address any fret issues themselves.

Quality control is the real issue. If they did it right in the first place then fret issues would rarely be a problem after transport or storage. Don't forget that most times with fingerboards we are talking rosewood, ebony or maple all of which have excellent properties for movement in service. Thats one reason they are used apart from their resistance to wear.
 
notCardio said:
And mine are perfectly fine.

Which one did you get?
Click to expand...

I got the 5-string J-bass model, not sure of the model number. I still think its a great value of a bass but man it really does make noticeable cuts thru the first few layers of skin on my fretting hand. But it didnt do this before. I think its climate changes I tell ya! :D

Actually our house gets super dry in the winter so I figure that's the culprit. It was fine last spring when it was more humid.

muttley:
I don't know squat about retail. I'd run a music store into the ground in a hurry by no doubt about it. But I'd keep sending them back until they got it right. But yeah quality assurance is certainly declining in so many areas, guitar manufacturing included. Maybe its just because I've read so much more about guitars in the last few years on the net, but I hear so many weird stories of bad QC lately it makes me afraid to buy anything anymore without getting my hands on it first.
 
muttley600 said:
Not really, Think about it. Even if the fingerboard did shrink exposing the fret ends or popping the frets up how are they going to be razor sharpened in the process. A correctly dressed fret will have no burr or sharp edges to speak of. Yes they might possibly be uncomfortable to play.
Click to expand...


Well, that's kinda true. I mean, your in a country which is realitively mild, weather wise, so I don't suspect you see as many badly dried out fingerboards as I do. When they stick out far enough, it doesn't have to be that sharp for it to be a problem. It's kind of like a serated knife for cutting bread - lots of little teeth cutting away at you.

QC is, however, a big problem with most factories fret work, though. No question there. Don't you just love those square Gibson frets?


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Tadpui said:
I got the 5-string J-bass model, not sure of the model number. I still think its a great value of a bass but man it really does make noticeable cuts thru the first few layers of skin on my fretting hand. But it didnt do this before. I think its climate changes I tell ya! :D

Actually our house gets super dry in the winter so I figure that's the culprit. It was fine last spring when it was more humid.

muttley:
I don't know squat about retail. I'd run a music store into the ground in a hurry by no doubt about it. But I'd keep sending them back until they got it right. But yeah quality assurance is certainly declining in so many areas, guitar manufacturing included. Maybe its just because I've read so much more about guitars in the last few years on the net, but I hear so many weird stories of bad QC lately it makes me afraid to buy anything anymore without getting my hands on it first.
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Well as far as retail goes most of the big names operate franchises. In short as a retailer you are expected to shift Their guitars and not the competitors. Thats why at least over here you rarely see music stores that carry more than one major brand except in the larger Cities. I think your right on the money when you say you won't buy anything without playing it first. A decent guitar shop should setup your guitar and listen to your comments before you walk home with it. Its a bit like buying a car in many ways. You want it valeted and serviced before you drive it home and would ask the garage to fix any obvious faults. If you buy cheaper you expect less service, ditto guitars.

Those of us that are old enough to remember the Fenders and some others of the mid 70's when they hit the shops can testify that quality control has never been their driving factor ;) These problems have been around for many years. They will react only when sales fall and market share is eaten away. In the seventies it was the rise of Japanese originals that spurred them on. What it will take this time is anybodies guess.
 
Light said:
Well, that's kinda true. I mean, your in a country which is realitively mild, weather wise, so I don't suspect you see as many badly dried out fingerboards as I do. When they stick out far enough, it doesn't have to be that sharp for it to be a problem. It's kind of like a serated knife for cutting bread - lots of little teeth cutting away at you.

QC is, however, a big problem with most factories fret work, though. No question there. Don't you just love those square Gibson frets?


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Click to expand...
True our climate is kinda to guitars than much of the US. I do see guitars with fingerboards shrinking. Most times they are not new however, it takes a bit of time to shrink across the grain with 20 plus tanged frets resisting it. I also see a lot of guitars fresh off the factory line with bad fret jobs in the first instance. I guess I'm just drawing my conclusions from this. ;) I think you'll agree that it shouldn't be climate related on a maple lacquered fingerboard, but somehow they seem to have the same problems in equal numbers.

Your right about big changes in humidity though we don't get it that bad. We have the opposite if anything, too high most of the year and then when it gets cold on goes the central heating and guitars dry out and...... well you can imagine the rest....

Square Gibson frets?? You mean the ones that never quite sit on the binding correctly?? I've tried to get some of that wire for repairs. Can't find any anywhere :D
 
Ok.....I go wayyyyyyyyyyy back...started playing in 62...When I bought my first "GOOD" guitar,after cutting my teeth on dime store junk, I bought a used Gibson melodymaker.....still have it.....bought new guitars now and then over the years....Seems like the ones I bought back in the day were always very good.....no wood,fret,electronic issues,....you could pick any guitar off the rack and it was just like the next one.....so you didn't have to try a zillion of them just to find a good one.....that seemed to end in the early to mid 70's when I noticed a marked decline in quailty across the board......Gibson started cranking out Les Pauls by the truck load because they were "POPULAR" again.......I bought a Gibson gold top in a pawn shop for 100.00 because they couldn't sell it......Fender was doing the same thing.....And yes,it's getting worse.....and will not get better.....It is a profit driven industry......more time paid to getting it right means less profit.......and like was stated in another post,it's even in the top of the line models......so get used to having to do a little work yourself to have a playable instrument.............. :(
 
I just picked up a Mex strat from GC.

My local GC sucks ass in that they do NOT keep the part of the building where the electrics are humidified. The Strat I got had smooth frets and that's because the guy had just put it on the shelf. I was running my fingers down a lot of guitars and they had very sharp edges. The one's that did for the most part had been on the rack for quite some time.

In '99 I bought my US Made Strat from GC and it's frets had a little bit of sprout. I had the tech fix it all up under Fender warranty. It's been awesome ever since.

In my local GC they have a big heat/ac fan up in the ceiling blowing down on the electrics. :rolleyes: One of the guys there pointed that out to me. You cannot put guitars on the shelf in a low humidity environment and not expect fret sprout. They are fucking idiots.

I have no idea how many guitars are shipped from the factory with sharp fret edges but many shops take no action on their part to get the proper humidity level into the room. :rolleyes:
 
muttley600 said:
Square Gibson frets?? You mean the ones that never quite sit on the binding correctly?? I've tried to get some of that wire for repairs. Can't find any anywhere :D
Click to expand...


Referring more to the way their frets profile has corners.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
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