J
jslator
New member
0-T said:
Yah, doin' it right is a bit of a bitch. It's usually worth it though.
Yah, doin' it right is a bit of a bitch. It's usually worth it though.
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DJL
Self Banned
A lot of music stores where I live have little recording studios in the store where you can record demos, test mic's and other stuff. It must suck living in nowhere land. I think we need a new law so every city must have a better music store. Yeah, your going to want the compressor for when you need to apply it before your A/D converters and etc. And the RNC plugs right into the insert on the VTB-1. Oh, and after you finely get a mic, preamp, and compressor, you'll most likely want to get a better soundcard and some monitors and stuff. Isn't this fun. 
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Joe Recorder
New member
0-T, I don't know where you can try a C-1, but for the MXL-V67B, you might try calling a samash store to see if you can try one there. They were out of them on their website a week ago but maybe they might have one at a store to try out.
I can't really recommend for or against any mic right now as I am very new to large diaphram condenser mic's. But I have been pricing mic's all over the net and recently took a chance and bought the V67 due to price, availability and many forum's user's opinion's. I would have probably bought the C-1 but they were out of them everywhere due to the port strike here in Los Angeles.
Good luck on your gear choice's and I also hope you post some of your song's in the MP3 section for us to check out when your done recording them.
Later.........Joe Recorder
I can't really recommend for or against any mic right now as I am very new to large diaphram condenser mic's. But I have been pricing mic's all over the net and recently took a chance and bought the V67 due to price, availability and many forum's user's opinion's. I would have probably bought the C-1 but they were out of them everywhere due to the port strike here in Los Angeles.
Good luck on your gear choice's and I also hope you post some of your song's in the MP3 section for us to check out when your done recording them.
Later.........Joe Recorder
0-T
New member
Sup y'all,
I just got back from GC, and I have to say it was rather uneventful, but... it got me thinking about a few other issues:
Studio Headphones - If we go ahead and get a condenser mic, as opposed to something like this Shure SM-58, I know it's really sensitive and will pick up everything... But even if I'm using a well insulated closet, the mic would still pick up music from the headphones, right? I'm assuming I might need some special headphones to keep the sound in. Is there an inexpensive pair of headphones that will play music well in the artist's ear, but not have any sound pic up on the condenser?
Sound Card - The guy at Guitar Center also said that if I'm using an adapter to run my preamp into my computer, I would add some noise. I have a 1/8" jack on the back of my PC, and the preamp would require a 1/4," but I already have an adapter. Would it really be worth it to get an all new sound card, just for recording vocals? I don't want to make an unnecessary purchase, but at the same time, I don't wanna buy great equipment and have something lower the quality anyway.
Thoughts?
I just got back from GC, and I have to say it was rather uneventful, but... it got me thinking about a few other issues:
Studio Headphones - If we go ahead and get a condenser mic, as opposed to something like this Shure SM-58, I know it's really sensitive and will pick up everything... But even if I'm using a well insulated closet, the mic would still pick up music from the headphones, right? I'm assuming I might need some special headphones to keep the sound in. Is there an inexpensive pair of headphones that will play music well in the artist's ear, but not have any sound pic up on the condenser?
Sound Card - The guy at Guitar Center also said that if I'm using an adapter to run my preamp into my computer, I would add some noise. I have a 1/8" jack on the back of my PC, and the preamp would require a 1/4," but I already have an adapter. Would it really be worth it to get an all new sound card, just for recording vocals? I don't want to make an unnecessary purchase, but at the same time, I don't wanna buy great equipment and have something lower the quality anyway.
Thoughts?
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faithful
New member
I have no direct experience with either piece but my local dealer here in KC is Russ at homestudiomusician.com and he has a C-3 and a VTB-1 in stock. I have never asked him directly but based on other conversations I would bet you could get the pair from him for right around your $500 mark.
I don't know what his policy is on out of town trials but he has let me try a few mics before so it doesn't hurt to ask.
Give him a call. You never know. Tell him Jason A sent you.
(Don't know if that will do anything or not but it''s always a good conversation piece.)
Jason A
I don't know what his policy is on out of town trials but he has let me try a few mics before so it doesn't hurt to ask.
Give him a call. You never know. Tell him Jason A sent you.
(Don't know if that will do anything or not but it''s always a good conversation piece.)Jason A
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chessrock
Banned
0-T said:
Yup. That's a good way of putting it.
My recommendation, in your range would be the Shure KSM27 if you want a high-quality, versatile condenser. And the NT1000 or SP C1 if you want something with a little extra high-end sizzle/goop.
0-T
New member
yeah, my friend has the KSM27 and likes it... but I'll probably go with the C-1. It's a great mic from what I've read, and it's $100 less.
Can anyone answer the two questions in my last post? I'm kind of in the dark about that. =\
I'm also wondering about compression. If I get a preamp without a compressor (like the AudioBuddy), and I'm shouting into the mic at loud volumes, will the signal be distorted going into my PC with no compressor? I can compress later in software, but I would like an undistorted wave to work from... any thoughts on that as well?
Can anyone answer the two questions in my last post? I'm kind of in the dark about that. =\
I'm also wondering about compression. If I get a preamp without a compressor (like the AudioBuddy), and I'm shouting into the mic at loud volumes, will the signal be distorted going into my PC with no compressor? I can compress later in software, but I would like an undistorted wave to work from... any thoughts on that as well?
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chessrock
Banned
0-T said:
As long as you leave yourself some extra headroom, you should be fine. If you're the type who can easily go from a mousy whisper to an all-out deathmetal shout in the same passage, then I'd highly recommend a compressor, but it isn't absolutely necessary.
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Richard Monroe
Well-known member
O-T- I see the reality is getting to you, but don't worry, it only gets worse!
Headphones- You need a good closed design with high attenuation. (Which is basically what you said, but it will help you to learn a new vocabulary) Unfortinately, they're one more thing that doesn't come that cheap. I like Sennheiser HD280 Pro, about $100. I'm a little hearing disabled, so I have to run my headphones pretty loud, and they work just fine, and are very comfortable. SONY and AKG make many models, but this is one where checking the specs will help. Check for the amount of attenuation.
If you have one person singing, and another tracking, you need 2 pairs, and a headphone amp. You will also need at least one extension cable so they'll reach the vocal booth. The only good news is that headphone distribution amps are less critical and less expensive than preamps. Keep the questions coming, you're getting it. For fun, there's a thread out there where you can see Sennheiser's top of the line headphones for $15,000 list! They may not turn out to be your first pair, but reading that will make the $100 easier to choke down.-Richie
Headphones- You need a good closed design with high attenuation. (Which is basically what you said, but it will help you to learn a new vocabulary) Unfortinately, they're one more thing that doesn't come that cheap. I like Sennheiser HD280 Pro, about $100. I'm a little hearing disabled, so I have to run my headphones pretty loud, and they work just fine, and are very comfortable. SONY and AKG make many models, but this is one where checking the specs will help. Check for the amount of attenuation.
If you have one person singing, and another tracking, you need 2 pairs, and a headphone amp. You will also need at least one extension cable so they'll reach the vocal booth. The only good news is that headphone distribution amps are less critical and less expensive than preamps. Keep the questions coming, you're getting it. For fun, there's a thread out there where you can see Sennheiser's top of the line headphones for $15,000 list! They may not turn out to be your first pair, but reading that will make the $100 easier to choke down.-Richie
0-T
New member
*slams head into desk*
0-T
New member
oh snap!
I have an idea. Instead of paying 100+ dollars for special headphones and a headphone amp, I think I'll just use some regular headphones and cover them up with ear muffs and a skully. That should do the job.
I have an idea. Instead of paying 100+ dollars for special headphones and a headphone amp, I think I'll just use some regular headphones and cover them up with ear muffs and a skully. That should do the job.
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laptoppop
Musical Technogeek
Using an adapter to change from a 1/4" plug to a mini-plug will NOT in itself, add any noise that you'll be able to hear.
On the other hand, the quality of the converters (both from analog to digital and from digital back to analog), WILL affect your sound. Long term, to get true reproduction of something like a C1-VTB1 type of chain, you'll want to get another soundcard.
Short term, any salesperson that gives me a baloney line like that one about an adapter causing noise in order to increase their sales is a salesperson who has just lost my business -- they either don't know anything, or have no scruples.
Just to confuse your purchasing even more -- some nice sound cards, such as the Aardvark DirectPro 24/96 have decent preamps built in. This particular beast has 4 channels with preamps, and comes with a full copy of Cakewalk pro audio 9.
Just a thought,
-lee-
On the other hand, the quality of the converters (both from analog to digital and from digital back to analog), WILL affect your sound. Long term, to get true reproduction of something like a C1-VTB1 type of chain, you'll want to get another soundcard.
Short term, any salesperson that gives me a baloney line like that one about an adapter causing noise in order to increase their sales is a salesperson who has just lost my business -- they either don't know anything, or have no scruples.
Just to confuse your purchasing even more -- some nice sound cards, such as the Aardvark DirectPro 24/96 have decent preamps built in. This particular beast has 4 channels with preamps, and comes with a full copy of Cakewalk pro audio 9.
Just a thought,
-lee-
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laptoppop
Musical Technogeek
Sound leaking from headphones (also called headphone bleed) is a common issue, even in top pro studios.
Some models of headphones are better than others. You want to look for totally "sealed" headphones - they have a lot less leakage to the outside. I use the Sony MDR-7506, they're pretty standard in the industry. The Sennheiser HD280 headphones are supposed to be darn good -- I've got them on my wish list. Both of these headphones are about $100. each.
However, you can usually control the leakage from most headphones by just turning them down a bit. The monitoring may not be quite as good for the musicians, but you can usually find a good balance.
-lee-
Some models of headphones are better than others. You want to look for totally "sealed" headphones - they have a lot less leakage to the outside. I use the Sony MDR-7506, they're pretty standard in the industry. The Sennheiser HD280 headphones are supposed to be darn good -- I've got them on my wish list. Both of these headphones are about $100. each.
However, you can usually control the leakage from most headphones by just turning them down a bit. The monitoring may not be quite as good for the musicians, but you can usually find a good balance.
-lee-
Chris Tondreau
Member
Just to throw out a couple of things...
I use a Rode NT1, and have never been disappointed. However, I have little to compare it to other than an SM58 and a CAD95. The Rode kicks both completely out of the water. I've never used a U87, though, so maybe I don't know what a good mic is...
Are you using an Audio Buddy? (just to make sure I'm thinking in the right direction, the Audio Buddy does not have converters, right... not a sound card?)
What soundcard are you using? It doesn't have 1/8" jacks, does it??!! Any soundcard, so far as I know, that has 1/8" jacks, will probably be one of the first things you'll want to replace. You can run a great mic and a great pre into a cheap card and get less-than-great results.
You're worried about room sound. What is your bedroom like? (no, I'm not looking for an invitation
) I record stuff in my spare room all the time, and my NT1 doesn't seem to be all that picky about my cluttered little carpeted room. My Behringer ECM8000's, though, are causing me to take room qualities into greater consideration....
With most condenser mics (except omni's.... anything reasonably directional, anyway....) you can get past a lot of the sound of a room by simply close-micing. If I set up my NT1 at the far side of the room (9' away
), then it will pick up a lot of my "room sound." (such as it is...) If I sing into the NT1 from about a foot away, there really is no problem.
Chris
I use a Rode NT1, and have never been disappointed. However, I have little to compare it to other than an SM58 and a CAD95. The Rode kicks both completely out of the water. I've never used a U87, though, so maybe I don't know what a good mic is...
Are you using an Audio Buddy? (just to make sure I'm thinking in the right direction, the Audio Buddy does not have converters, right... not a sound card?)
What soundcard are you using? It doesn't have 1/8" jacks, does it??!! Any soundcard, so far as I know, that has 1/8" jacks, will probably be one of the first things you'll want to replace. You can run a great mic and a great pre into a cheap card and get less-than-great results.
You're worried about room sound. What is your bedroom like? (no, I'm not looking for an invitation
) I record stuff in my spare room all the time, and my NT1 doesn't seem to be all that picky about my cluttered little carpeted room. My Behringer ECM8000's, though, are causing me to take room qualities into greater consideration.... With most condenser mics (except omni's.... anything reasonably directional, anyway....) you can get past a lot of the sound of a room by simply close-micing. If I set up my NT1 at the far side of the room (9' away
), then it will pick up a lot of my "room sound." (such as it is...) If I sing into the NT1 from about a foot away, there really is no problem.Chris
Chris Tondreau
Member
just to add...
Depending on your needs in a pre-amp, you might also want to try to find a Peavey TMP-1 mic pre. It is roughly a "smaller sibling" to the VMP-2's that a lot of the pros really like. The main difference is that it is only a single channel, and there is no EQ. It IS a true tube mic pre, though, and I've been quite happy with it... though I've never plugged anything into a Neve console....
Chris
Depending on your needs in a pre-amp, you might also want to try to find a Peavey TMP-1 mic pre. It is roughly a "smaller sibling" to the VMP-2's that a lot of the pros really like. The main difference is that it is only a single channel, and there is no EQ. It IS a true tube mic pre, though, and I've been quite happy with it... though I've never plugged anything into a Neve console....
Chris
J
jslator
New member
Chris Tondreau said:
IIRC, for some mind-boggling reason, the TMP-1 uses a non-standard phantom voltage. I think it's like 24 volts, or something. That could cause a problem with some condensors.
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PinkStrat
New member
BTW, The AT4040 Audio-Technica AT4040 hasn't really replaced their venerable 4033....it's just differently designed with a large diaphragm [1 inch instead of smaller as with the 4033]. The AT4040 is a very nice sounding piece in any case!
ART TubePACS do suck unless you modify them. I'd go with the new Studio Projects microphone preamp or the RNMP myself. Just a thought or two about this.
ART TubePACS do suck unless you modify them. I'd go with the new Studio Projects microphone preamp or the RNMP myself. Just a thought or two about this.
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chessparov
New member
Sony 7506's (or MDR-V6) headphones are excellent for tracking and for
troubleshooting mixes. If you need a second pair as a reference, I think
www.musicansfriend.com are having a sale on the AKG 270S for $120.
At www.bpmmusic.com they were giving free 2 day shipping on the
Studio Projects B1 condenser ($80) and VTB-1.
Remember to get a good pop screen (around $30) to record vocal with.
Does your computer have USB? That'll affect what connective options you
have. At www.joemeek.com they were selling some demo MQ1 units that
have pre/compression/EQ for PC's at a discount price.
If you only have a dual output on your computer, how were you planning to
have your material mixed? Would you prefer the option of 4 (or more)
track outputs so tracks can be individually mixed elsewhere?
If you can afford a second microphone, a used Shure SM57 or Unidyne III
like the 545 is a fine choice to expand your options.
Chris
troubleshooting mixes. If you need a second pair as a reference, I think
www.musicansfriend.com are having a sale on the AKG 270S for $120.
At www.bpmmusic.com they were giving free 2 day shipping on the
Studio Projects B1 condenser ($80) and VTB-1.
Remember to get a good pop screen (around $30) to record vocal with.
Does your computer have USB? That'll affect what connective options you
have. At www.joemeek.com they were selling some demo MQ1 units that
have pre/compression/EQ for PC's at a discount price.
If you only have a dual output on your computer, how were you planning to
have your material mixed? Would you prefer the option of 4 (or more)
track outputs so tracks can be individually mixed elsewhere?
If you can afford a second microphone, a used Shure SM57 or Unidyne III
like the 545 is a fine choice to expand your options.
Chris
Chris Tondreau
Member
jslator said:
You're right, jslator. There is not sufficient power to run my NT1 mic, so it's not true 48V phantom power. I don't know exactly what the spec is, though. Yeah, that's kinda weird. The easy solution, though, is to have an external phantom pack.
Chris
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DJL
Self Banned
Re: oh snap!
I use Sony MDR-7506 cans and have no problems.
0-T said:
I use Sony MDR-7506 cans and have no problems.