I've got a harmonica player coming in..............

[slidey]

a couple of days.........................again looking for a bit of direction on mics & potential placing

the player will be using a Hohner bullet or is it a shure...............not sure it's a bullet either way, I don't want to be stuck with the "bullet sound" so take a gander & see what y'all think

OK for close I'm thinking dynamic......
Senny MD43, 431mkII
EV PL80,88,95
Beyer M201
Shure SM57,58

I also have (with thoughts of close micing)
Neumann KMS105
Calrec 652,656
Senny lavalier

for room sound
Neuman TLM103
AKG solidtube
SE electronics 2200A

any tips/advice will be greatly received
thank you
Slidey

 

[mshilarious]

for room sound
Neuman TLM103
AKG solidtube
SE electronics 2200A

When I don't want a Bullet sound, I take any of my usual LDC suspects (the more colorful, the better), and treat the harp exactly like a vocal.

 

[slidey]

When I don't want a Bullet sound, I take any of my usual LDC suspects (the more colorful, the better), and treat the harp exactly like a vocal.

methinks a smattering of solidtube then.................along with the bullet, probably driving the valves out of an amp head feading a speaker mic'd with a beyer 201 or 57

cripes that was fast BTW

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

If it's chromatic and you want an orchestral sound go with the AKG on the harp unamped.

If he's playing diatonic in a blues or honkey tonk, stick with the bullet run through the smallest, dirtiest amp you got, turn the treble on the amp down to taste, and close mic that with a 57 if you want mo betta bass or a 58 if you want mo betta mids.

G.

 

[slidey]

it's a blues harmonica & the track is a swingy, jazzy, blues type thing

I want the grunt of the bullet through an amp & I think I'll 57 the cab...........

I'll also use the tube to treat the harmonica like a voice so I have the best of both worlds

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I'll also use the tube to treat the harmonica like a voice so I have the best of both worlds

Yeah, if you're looking for a Little Walter/Sonny Boy Williamson kind of sound, crunching it through some overheated tubes will definitely help you with the sound you want.

G.

 

[slidey]

overheated tubes .

my amp heids are on already

I plan to cook my dinner on it tomorrow

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

my amp heids are on already

I plan to cook my dinner on it tomorrow

Hahaha, yeah, there's nothing quite like fried eggs and toast that have an old tweed weave pattern in the back of them .

G.

 

[slidey]

Hahaha, yeah, there's nothing quite like fried eggs and toast that have an old tweed weave pattern in the back of them .

G.

damn straight

I once cooked my finger on the on/off switch of a silverface twin at the end of a gig.....................man up untill then I had no idea tube amps could get so damn hot...............my finger hurt man let me tell you,

I get the drummer to turn my amp off now

 

[Van Greco]

I was just wondering how this came out and what mics you ended up using. I have to record some harmonica tracks tommorrow and the info might be useful. What worked best for you?

 

[slidey]

I was just wondering how this came out and what mics you ended up using. I have to record some harmonica tracks tommorrow and the info might be useful. What worked best for you?

sorry dude can't help yet as the player is coming in on Monday night

however try an LDC as mshilarious (the laughing one ) suggested & if you want the grunt use a bullet into a valve amp mic'd with a 57

lmao, maybe you could tell me how you got on as you'll be done before me

 

[Van Greco]

No problem man, thanks anyway. I'm leaning toward the mix of condenser (I'm thinking darker) and 57 or M160 on the twin. I'll report back, but I'd still be interested in how it went with you as well. I've been able to find presious little info on recording the harmonica thusfar and it's the one instrument that I have the most trouble with. So........I may not be done before you after all.

 

[slidey]

No problem man, thanks anyway. I'm leaning toward the mix of condenser (I'm thinking darker) and 57 or M160 on the twin. I'll report back, but I'd still be interested in how it went with you as well. I've been able to find presious little info on recording the harmonica thusfar and it's the one instrument that I have the most trouble with. So........I may not be done before you after all.

it's an instrument I'm still coming to terms with, a lot of the sound I think I'm looking for comes primarily from the bullet mic into an amp

& the LDC in place just so I'm not stuck with the sound of the bullet

*sudden thought* I'm going to feed the bullet into a DI box in order to have the bullet straight to the desk, & the sound of the bullet into an amp being driven to meltdown point

So the channel setup would be

1-LDC
2-bullet DI'd
3-amp with SM57

& play around untill it sounds "just so"

the biggest bug bear I've had (especially with distorted mouthie parts) is the sound of breathing & reed ring inbetween the played notes. I've resorted to using gates to remove that....................although I've never used the bullet

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

it's an instrument I'm still coming to terms with, a lot of the sound I think I'm looking for comes primarily from the bullet mic into an amp

Most definitely.

There are two keys to great blues harp sound. First the the ability for the player to get the mic cupped inside his hands and into the harp. Not only do you get proximity happening, but you're getting the resonances and muting inside the hand. The good harp player actually makes the microphone part of the instrument and works it for the right sound. Like every other instrument - even more so with the harp than with some others - it's all in playing technique, and a good part of that technique is dependant upon the hands. You're just not going to get any of that with a big ol' condensor hanging in a shockmount inches or feet away from the player.

It doesn't have to be a bullet, great harp players do it at open mic nights all the time with 58s or whatever is available onstage. As long as they han get it in their hands and work it as part of the instrument. (Unless the harp player is a mook that knows not how to play like that.) But a good classic cartirge sound from a JT30 or even an old Turner communications mic is what the harp player really craves. A newer bullet like the Hohner Blue or even the Shure Green is not quite as vintage, but will still work great.

The second is the overdrive and distortion from a greasy, small, overdriven amp. Even a small 9V Pignose can work great for this. Adjust the treble to taste, but as often as not, you won't want it too crisp and somewhat muted on the high end.

That's all if we're talking standard 2nd position diatonic blues harp or cross harp. If you're recording more of a John Popper diatonic or Stevie Wonder chromatic where it's more of a lead brass/reed instrument than a Blind Melon Chitlins, Woke Up This Mornin' harp, then the possibilities can open up a bit to a nice LDC or stand-mounted RE-20 or something.

G.

 

[slidey]

FORTUNATELY

the player has played in a heavy blues band for years utilising the cupping tech. you mentioned. So I'm not really worried about that aspect of it

I've seen a lot of players using 58s & 57s but to be honest I prefer the bullet, & also I don't have any of the other mics SSG mentioned

a pignose huh...................my mate has one of them................methinks I'll bend his ear for a shot!!!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

FORTUNATELY

the player has played in a heavy blues band for years utilising the cupping tech. you mentioned. So I'm not really worried about that aspect of it

I've seen a lot of players using 58s & 57s but to be honest I prefer the bullet, & also I don't have any of the other mics SSG mentioned

a pignose huh...................my mate has one of them................methinks I'll bend his ear for a shot!!!

yeah, play a round a bit with the amp. An overdriven Pig can deliver a surprisingly cool sound on blues harp. Anyone who'se gone down to the old Maxwell Street for a Polish with grilled onions can tell you about that sound .

Sounds like you're lucky in that the harp player will be bringing you halfway home . I wouldn't be suprised if he even walked in with his own favoritle little amp.

When I was studying harp at the Oldtown we had a guy who's favorite rig was an old Turner +2 communications desk microphone that he bought for his old CB radio base station back in the 70s. He ripped the bullet-like head off of if it and modified the wiring to go to a standard 1/4" unbalanced instead of it's old 5-pin DIN plug. I don't remember what he used for mic pre and amp (it wasn't much, though), but the driver was an old speaker box of the type that used to hang up on the top of the front walls of grade school classrooms to receive messages from the principal and whatnot. He brought that rig in to class one night and played through it and it sounded really cool .

Seriously, though, It depends a lot upon the rest of the mix too. This stuff is great for busking and for solos, but sometimes something a bit fatter on the low end might be in order if you have a thick mix that's heavy at 4k but lacking below 400. You're a smart guy who knows his way around a gobo, I'm sure you'll find the right combo; especially since you'll already have Bleeding Gums Murphy on the business end .

G.

 

[slidey]

yeah, play a round a bit with the amp. An overdriven Pig can deliver a surprisingly cool sound on blues harp. Anyone who'se gone down to the old Maxwell Street for a Polish with grilled onions can tell you about that sound .

Sounds like you're lucky in that the harp player will be bringing you halfway home . I wouldn't be suprised if he even walked in with his own favoritle little amp.

When I was studying harp at the Oldtown we had a guy who's favorite rig was an old Turner +2 communications desk microphone that he bought for his old CB radio base station back in the 70s. He ripped the bullet-like head off of if it and modified the wiring to go to a standard 1/4" unbalanced instead of it's old 5-pin DIN plug. I don't remember what he used for mic pre and amp (it wasn't much, though), but the driver was an old speaker box of the type that used to hang up on the top of the front walls of grade school classrooms to receive messages from the principal and whatnot. He brought that rig in to class one night and played through it and it sounded really cool .

Seriously, though, It depends a lot upon the rest of the mix too. This stuff is great for busking and for solos, but sometimes something a bit fatter on the low end might be in order if you have a thick mix that's heavy at 4k but lacking below 400. You're a smart guy who knows his way around a gobo, I'm sure you'll find the right combo; especially since you'll already have Bleeding Gums Murphy on the business end .

G.

it's a fat ol' mix indeed, not dissimilar to the mud from the bottom of any given river

I must quiz the player if he has an amp or not.................if he does he can jolly well bring it with him

 

[slidey]

okey dokey

my recording went well (ya'll can wait for clips because it's an album for release!!)

I used a Hohner Bullet DI'd to the desk & a link out to my selmer T+B50 amp thru a 1x12" black widow mic'd with a beyer dynamic M201

I also had a solidtube LDC at a 45 degree angle at the side of the player with mic in line with his mouth about a foot away for the natural harmonica sound (where littledog suggested for recording a sax part)

it all worked out fine & the grunt of the amped up bullet off sets the clean sounds in the mix beautifully

I would liked to have used a pignose or a champ but alas I couldn't borrow one, so I tweaked about with the said amp & speaker untill it sounded right

so the result is very pleasing being a mixture of

trk 1-bullet DI'd
trk 2-bullet thru selmer
trk 3-solidtube

& now I'm off to comp & mix

yeeha

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I used a Hohner Bullet DI'd to the desk & a link out to my selmer T+B50 amp thru a 1x12" black widow mic'd with a beyer dynamic M201

I also had a solidtube LDC at a 45 degree angle at the side of the player with mic in line with his mouth about a foot away for the natural harmonica sound (where littledog suggested for recording a sax part)

it all worked out fine & the grunt of the amped up bullet off sets the clean sounds in the mix beautifully

I would liked to have used a pignose or a champ but alas I couldn't borrow one, so I tweaked about with the said amp & speaker untill it sounded right

so the result is very pleasing being a mixture of

trk 1-bullet DI'd
trk 2-bullet thru selmer
trk 3-solidtube

& now I'm off to comp & mix

hahaha, nothing like triple-tracking a harp to cover the bases . Probably a very good idea going into a virgin recording situation like that, actually. It'll be interesting to see how the 3 tracks wind up mixing out.

G.

 

[slidey]

hahaha, nothing like triple-tracking a harp to cover the bases . Probably a very good idea going into a virgin recording situation like that, actually. It'll be interesting to see how the 3 tracks wind up mixing out.

G.

damn straight Mr. G

I've just been talking to my father & he said post an MP3...................so once it's comped & mixed I'll post it on this thread & also in the MP3 mix clinic just to see what people say about it