I've finally made up my mind about Carvin

[TheRockDoc]

and after 25 years of dreaming about the great stuff they make, I am left with only one feeling...

They are a bunch of pussy's.

I have never had such bad service, such indifference paid to me (except at a motor vehicle office), and I have never been left wth such a lack of respect as I have after dealing with them directly as a customer. What prompted the experience that I base this on? Simple... I wasn't buying something new.

I have a 1981 DN6. It is a 6/12 doubleneck in Koa with gold hardware. I found it on eBay- it was a dream come true. I ge tthe guitar, and the setup work that it needed went beyond what my regular guy could do. So I thunk to meeself. "Hey, why not call Carvin?". So I get on the phone, and four transfers later (since I wasn't buying something new, apparantly no one could remember what department was what, or anything about the history of the company or their previous lines which have barely changed in 30 years). I finally get to the guitar techs. No one knows anything about these guitars. Granted, they are an old model. I imagine no one at Martin or Gibson or Fender would know anything about an old model either "Hello sir, I was wondering if you could tell me something about an old stratocaster?" "Uh sorry...no one here is familiar with that"

So finally I just let it go... Then a few months later, I'm going to California, so I email the company:

-----Original Message-----
From: therockdoc@cox.net [mailto:therockdoc@cox.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 4:42 AM
To: ReturnsRepairs
Subject: 6/12 Doubleneck

I am the proud owner of a 1981 Koa 6/12 doubleneck in need of some
repair/setup work. I am flying in to LA this weekend and was thinking
about bringing the guitar by the factory on Monday. My questions are...
Can I actually do that?
How long does would it take for you guys to actually get it on the bench
and determine what needs to be done?
Assuming that the only thing involved was a basic setup, what would you
charge, and how long might that take?

Flying on Friday so any heads up would be appreciated...

Thanks,


On Nov 17, 2005, at 12:28 PM, _____ wrote:

Daniel,

We have a one to two week turn around time on all repairs. You can drop
it off here in S.D. or you can drop it off at the Hollywood store in
L.A.. If you drop it off at Hollywood when the truck makes it's
pick-ups/drop off's on Thursdays.

We charge $40.00 an hour labor plus parts and $19.99 for shipping.

Thanks,

Carvin Guitars
12340 World Trade Dr.
San Diego CA, 92128
800 854 2235 x181

So I write:

Thanks- I'll be dropping it off in the Hollywood store and having it shipped back east after. Basically, it needs a good working over and restoration to something more useable. It loses its tune quickly, the action needs a slight tweeking due to buzzing and a bit of a heavy hand playing, and the neck probably needs some straightening. It's a 1981, reportedly owned by Gregg Allman at one time, but not taken care of as well as it should. Overall it's in good shape, but I expect perfection from a Carvin

Thanks,


Seems like it's all going great. So I get to the Carvin store in LA after an EXCRUCIATING dealing with the airlines. I walk into the store, and the guy is like- oh- not buying anything...humph whooo harumph... pouts his way to the phone, and calls the factory to talk to the tech I spoke with. Apparantly, no one thinks to bring their Carvin's back to Carvin. 3 phone calls and 20 minutes later, he finally gets the tech on the phone. Does the guy remember our correspondence? no. Must have been a run on 25 year old doublenecks being sent from across the United Fucking States. So it takes the guy ANOTHER 40 minutes to write up a fucking repair ticket, all the while my wife and kids are waiting for me to not ruin our vacation while they were getting worked up in the car. Don't worry, I'm just dropping it off honey. Yeah, right. They also tell me that it's going to be an extra few weeks because it's a holiday week and that's goiing to set things back on the delivery schedule to San Diego, etc. Fine with me. So this is the summary:

-----Original Message-----
From: The Rock Doc [mailto:therockdoc@cox.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 6:00 AM
To: _____
Subject: Re: 6/12 Doubleneck

Hello ___:

Has my DN6 made it onto the bench yet? If so, can you tell me what you
found?

Thanks,

In other words, tell me what is going on...

His response?

"It's done. Our service department will contact you so that you can
provide form of payment."

Thanks,
_____
Carvin Guitars
12340 World Trade Dr.
San Diego CA, 92128
800 854 2235

Am I being a whiner, or do I have a right to be frustrated with a bunch of wankmeisters? If I were to buy another guitar from them, which I had planned on, is this the kind of attitude I should expect?

Maybe I'm having my period, but I just think these guys don't give a fuck- unless your buying something new. Integrity after the sale, however, is just as important in my book. I used to work at a major music store (in guitar and PA) across from a major music school, and no one ever seemed to not care. It was always the guy you expected least to pull 2-3K out of pocket for a Warwick or a Boogie stack that made your day. These guys will only get verification of how much I spent elsewhere, because they didn't care. Yes they did the work, but it tastes like shit...

OK- it's over. Sorry, but thanks for listening LMAO

 

[DogFood]

is it too much to ask a company to have someone in charge capable of COMMUNICATION?! one would think the answer would be no, it is not asking too much...

 

[iratecaller666]

hey

My bandmates are extremely happy with their NEW Carvin gear ...

... but history has proven time and time again, that any company is eager to sell you something, but 2 years down the line (let alone 20 years) , most companies can't support their own products.

That'll teach ya.

The important lesson in all this is: Make sure that all your problems are adressed within a year or two from purchase, this will ensure a lifetime of troublefree operation.

Doh!

The quality of Carvin gear is really good. I know two extremely happy owners of fretless bass guitars, and one very happy owner of a keyboard amp.

The quality's there, but you'd think that the support dept technicians would have a lesson on the company's proud history and there would be a higher standard enforced with the way customers are dealt with.

The customer who busts his ass to bring back a 20 year old instrument to get repaired is certainly not a whiner / wanker , this is a person who cares. The instrument is cherrished. In the company's eyes, it all boils down to you being a "potential repeat customer". As cold as that sounds, recognizing that fact would lead to better service.

Let's hope your case is an isolated incident and not the norm. I would have expected a smoother response from the technicians .. something like: "It's been a pleasure to work on this classic peice of gear. You'll be pleased to know sir, that despite a few knicks, intonation issues and slight bow in the neck, that the instrument has been restored, re-tuned and is ready to rock. The knicks however, we felt gave it character ;-) Carvin staff. (P.S. Of course, should you need some work done with the paint, we would certainly be able to help you.)

Thank you for choosing Carvin!

 

[NRS]

RockDock,
What you've just discribed is the same service you can typically expect from just about every big name music store across the country, not just Carvin. Sometimes you can run across an employee who really gives a shit and knows thier stuff (which is usually in the higher commissioned pro recording department) but most of the time you'll just find a bunch of younger rock star wanna-bees with limited attention spans who are watching the clock and thinking more about chugging beer at the next local open jam than providing you with good service. I doubt Carvin pays any of its employees a reasonable enough living wage that any of them would still even be around from the time your guitar was made. Lets face it, working at a music store is like working at a department store. Although it may corrispond nicely with a musicians personal interests, none of them really wants to still be working there in ten years. (no offense to any music store employees here)

I find I usually get much better service from the small retailer who actually owns the store and sometimes even good support can be had through certian catalog companies. For the price you paid you probably could have found any local guitar repair guy to get the job done. Theres nothing special about a Carvin they probably havent already seen before and parts can always be ordered.

As for Carvin gear itself, I think most of it is pretty decent, especially thier guitars. As for being done with Carvin, although that is certainly your porogative and your dissatisfaction is justified, it would be like swearing off Taco Bell forever just because some employee at one of thier locations screwed up your order one time. I know its all unfortunate, but its to be expected. Maybe you just had an inflated expectation of what you think the average Carvin employee would be like based on Carvins nicely marketed catalog and the attachment you have to your guitar.

Hope it all works out for you in the end though.

 

[Light]

Granted, they are an old model. I imagine no one at Martin or Gibson or Fender would know anything about an old model either "Hello sir, I was wondering if you could tell me something about an old stratocaster?" "Uh sorry...no one here is familiar with that"

Well, Gibson can be pretty clueless sometimes, but Martin still has the name of any original owner who registered their guitar for the last 110 years or so. And the Fender techs are very good, most of the time, though getting in touch with them is a bit of a feat in and of itself.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[TheRockDoc]

Well the same trip out to Cali brought my Modulus Q5. Thinking that all the companies were in SoCal (duh) I was surprised to realize that Novato was north of San Fran. Fortunately, I was headed up that way. Here is a paraphrase of THAT call.

BTW- for the record, my Carvin is still a beautiful guitar, and some of the ones in the shop in LA were by far more beautiful for the $$ than the competition by a long shot...so back to Modulus..

"Hi, I have a bass that is need of some work and I'd like it done like it came out of the factory."
"Well, I'm sorry Dan, but we only accept warranty work at the factory."
"Uh oh, I flew out here from Virginia, and I have the guitar with me- it didn't occur to me that you wouldn't accept it back. Is there anything you might be able to do under the circumstance?"
"Well our shop charge is $80/hr.- I hate to see you spend that much money."
"Well I'd be happy to pay it if I knew the work would be done correctly."
"Hang on for a moment please...OK- just bring it to the factory- here are the directions, and I'll take care of it for you."
I get to the factory (a little dinky shit suite in an corporate office park), and walk upstairs, and the guy says, "___ had to leave- but you must be the guy woth the Q5- I'll take care of that for you". Then he mapquested my dad's house, and I had a great day- traffic and all.

Godin, on the other hand, by email, kindly had the same policy as Modulus- although I hadn't sent the instrument back to them. This is a surprising trend- or maybe a well established policy- that companies are not accepting non-warranty work. The techs in my area basically suck- that's the nicest way to say it. My regular guy is not from here, and is really building custom drums, but was previously certified to repair by Martin and Gibson. He doesn't have all the tools that he needs, and so I find myself thinkning that the company might be a better alternative. The only amplifier repair tech between Va Beach and Richmond (100 miles) has a 3-4 week wait to even get it on the test bench.

It ain't N-Y-C- that's for sure.

 

[apl]

FWIW, Carvin has suffered through a disasterous computer system upgrade over the last couple of months. Maybe that was a reason, but not an excuse.

Could you go to the Carvin Museum and post some pix? That site's not owned by Carvin. You can probably rant, too, and maybe get a better explanation.

Just to be clear, did they do the work you wanted in a timely manner and for a reasonable price?

 

[TheRockDoc]

There is a picture of an identical DN6 on that site.

Of course, I don't know what the work done was, or how good it was, or how much it costs, since the email response was- "It's done. Someone from customer service will be contacting you to arrange payment". But it appears to have been done ahead of schedule- to their credit.

Thanks, Mr. CarvinNumnuts.

I guess I just feel, at this point in my life, my tolerance for people who don't care about what they are involved in is zero, and my bullshit detector is even more on alert. I've been involved in performing arts for almost 30 years, and just have found I really love performing and arts...just not as much doing business with the people often involved.

 

[philboyd studge]

First we have to bear in mind Carvin is a retail company and that's where they make money, not repair. That said, I don't think they are any better or worse than any other manufacturer, and the same conditions for success apply; try to put the least amount of people and situations between you and the person who is going to repair your item.

For Carvin it's pretty simple; if you can, go directly to the factory store early in the day and early in the week. The guy you want is not far behind the door on the right, behind the sales counter. Typically, they'll write it up with the quotes you said earlier, but there's a better way. Shop first. Take a good look at some guitars an enguage a sales guy and after he gets the impression you're about to buy, bring up the subject of the guitar you need to be looked at....they may well get right on it, and if it's not a time consuming repair, it can be done while you wait, especially if they know you are out of the area.

My experience with them was a little different. I had an AG100D amp that was acting up and I figured I'd make the 3 hour drive just to save time overall...plus visit friends down there. Turned out the kid I was talking to had just taken over the company...he didn't look like a typical sales guy and I asked if the Ferrari for sale outside was his. It was, and being the grandson, it was time to be changing his ways. That led to a long conversation about Carvin's early days and their main local amp competitor, Fender....while my amp was being gone through. So, for a few Leo Fender and Doc Kauffman stories I got out there for free.

Anyway, it helps to keep it simple and go as direct as possible.

 

[NRS]

I guess I just feel, at this point in my life, my tolerance for people who don't care about what they are involved in is zero, and my bullshit detector is even more on alert. I've been involved in performing arts for almost 30 years, and just have found I really love performing and arts...just not as much doing business with the people often involved.

Your absolutely right. People in the performing arts can often be complete flakes but I think its also the natural capitalistic evolution of any big retail company that is equally to blame for poor service (reguardless of what industry). The guy who started the company out of his garage thirty years ago may have built his buisiness on service and integrity, but once it becomes a multi-million dollar corperation run by greedy share holders who try to maximize profit by cutting employee wages and benifits, service and integrity go right out the window (even though it may still be part of thier bullshit slogan). Ten years from now you probably wont even be able to get a real support person on the other end of the line at Carvin (not without having to go through some excruciatingly long automated menu anyway). Rest assured, they'll always provide efficiant, curtious, and trouble free support when it comes to collecting your money though! LOL

 

[Monsoon]

Frankly, I'm not surprised that this happened - not just because it's Carvin, but I'd pretty much expect as much out of any non-boutique manufacturer. Warranties, they'll handle. But they're not a repair shop. They're a manufacturer. I'm sure there's turnover, and you can't keep educating techs on all kinds of obsolete models. Just corporate / business realilty.

You might have had better luck having your local repair guy contact a Carvin tech for advice, and then proceed on that basis. Then again, maybe not.

That a manufacturer, any manufacturer, doesn't have the time or inclination to take in non-warranty work, especially on an older model, is not the least bit surprising to me.

I think you were expecting too much. JMHO.

Or maybe I just expect too little...

 

[cephus]

I was just wondering what was wrong with the guitar that the best strategy was flying across country with it and taking it to the factory. Why wouldn't it be better to find a luthier or good tech who could do something with it? I mean, I wouldn't send a strat back to fender for any reason. I know that this is a double neck and no doubt odd, but it's an electric guitar.

Aside from that, the company seems to suck. I never thought they had anything super cool except for their full-page ads in early 80s issues of guitar player magazine.

 

[apl]

Aside from that, the company seems to suck. I never thought they had anything super cool except for their full-page ads in early 80s issues of guitar player magazine.

We'll have to get together and you can try my DC135 and I'll try your T60.

 

[Sirnothingness]

While I don't have any experience with Carvin, I do have with numerous guitar techs. I can agree that they tend to talk alot up front but then care less afterwards. For me anyway, they act very interested when I'm talking to them about the problem, but then when the work is getting done they seem to have lost that level of concern. Oh well, the end result is whether they did a good job. That usually does it for me.

 

[cephus]

We'll have to get together and you can try my DC135 and I'll try your T60.

Dude, don't even go there. I heard your tunes.

That elitist attitude toward gear is what's keeping you down. My pickle barrel lid guitar sounds better than a PRS, so I'm sure that my 11-pounder is better than some zebra-wood mail-order guitar with 22 polepieces.

pickle barrel lid guitar 4-track

 

[Hard2Hear]

Ive dealt with PRS, Taylor, and Martin about owned guitars needing work and they have all been fantastic. Taylor is absolutely the best, even for non-original owners. Martin went out of their way to pay for a problem I had with a guitar plus an additional fret job it didnt really even quite need yet. Theres no excuse for a company, especially one like Carvin, to be so crappy with support. Gibson is old as the hills and has changed ownership countless times, so you kind of expect it from them. Then again, though Ive never had work done on older Gibsons, I have talked to their support and they were fast and knowledgeable with their replies.

Fender,,, well we wont go there.

H2H

 

[apl]

That elitist attitude toward gear is what's keeping you down.

Hardeehardeeharharhar!

I use a Digitech RP50 a lot. My other electric is Squire Bullet that I fixed up with better bridge, tuners, and pups and some setup, and I use it a lot. I use the soundcard on my laptop to record and I mix and master on headphones.

It's my lack of talent that's keeping me down.

 

[apl]

Oh, and I've owned Peavey equipment in the past and nearly bought some Behringer stuff.

 

[apl]

....zebra-wood mail-order guitar with 22 polepieces.

Carvin doesn't use zebra-wood, and mine has 44 pole pieces, and will soon have 55.

But who's counting?

 

[cephus]

Keywords: dulcimer, conjoined, rattlesnakes, tickle-me-elmo

Carvin doesn't use zebra-wood, and mine has 44 pole pieces, and will soon have 55.

But who's counting?

Is that like Mr Mom? "55 or 56. Whatever it takes."

I confess to 2 lies. I never heard your tunes and my recording is too old to be the pickle barrel lid guitar. I think it's my strat. My hillbilly pride gets wound up when I detect scorn directed at the venerable T-60.

OK. I lied again. I did hear your tunes, I don't have a strat and I used to be a woman.

OK. I have to come clean. I'm deaf, I play dulcimer in a worship band in one of those churches where they kiss rattlesnakes and I'm actually conjoined fraternal twins (one boy and one girl). The girl part of me was trying to get a sex change, but died on the operating table and they just kinda clamped her off and she fell off in the shower after a couple weeks. The two biggest bummers are I can't go shirtless at the pool even though I lost all that weight, and I have no one to talk my secret twin language to anymore.

That said, I recorded some yuck using my laptop soundcard and it broke my fricking heart to meticulously lay down 24 tracks that ultimately sound like they're being played back on a tickle-me-elmo speaker. I just bought a delta 44 and an AKG condensor mic and am in the process of picking through and replacing the nastiest tracks to try and get it to sound like music.