I've a problem. Oh shut up.

crawdads first point is what I tried to fix. That is was drove me nuts and I think that rhyme inside the verse is imperative (plus I love writing rhymes inside of rhymes:)).

you're doing the song justice by taking your time and sorting through the options. Hope it all crystalizes in a burning, muse-struck moment of inspiration and clarity!! Or.........through gruesome hours of wadded up paper, fist pumping and profanity.


Either way:D

Theron.
 
Thanks! I had some very good teachers over the years. First and foremost was my old publisher. No way could you slip anything by him. It taught me in a short time to try and see the song in terms of reality. When you can get down to the nitty gritty of the human experience and the human heart, the truth will cut through anything.

I'm glad the suggestions were helpful. I'd love to see where you take it from here. My best to you!
 
Oh, yeah. Its always hardest to see from our own vantage point. Usually, its because we have a lot of IDEAS about what we want to put in the lyric and there are conflicts. It stems from not seeing the theme as is and its borders. The question is always: what is this song really about?

I've got one now that I thought was gonna be killer, but as I read it today, I see that my theme is wandering all over the place. Cool verses but not connected enough. It confuses me--so its sure as hell gonna confuse anybody who listens to it. Its a lot easier to be objective with anothers work. I co-wrote for a long time because two heads are better than one when it comes to isolating problems. Sometimes, I am way too close to my own work to see the forest for the trees.

Sometimes, we just get lucky too. It might be a real abstract line, but it works, ya know? In Paul Simon's American Tune, he has these two lines that just worked on a subliminal level:

We come on the ship they call the Mayflower
We come on the ship that sails the moon

Now that second line is kinda vague but I know he's talking about the present--contrasting the journey from England to America and the modern trip from the earth to the moon. In that juxtaposition, he creates meaning that I understand--almosty without knowing why or thinking about it.

Well, I'm just kinda talking out loud, but I love this stuff! I suppose if it was easy, everybody would be doing it, right?!
 
Good point Henri.
I just don't like rock the boat, except in the cave, ya know.
Gimme a day or two and I'll throw up a bit of the song. My shoulder is acting up to much to play right now.


Theron. Yeah, You did. But I was so intent on trying to leave it as it was, but find some magical word to fit,,,,,,, blah, blah....
Like I said earlier, but some of the ideas like 'Tomb' was just too deep, heavy, deathly for this song.
It's a slow long, kinda I guess. I've really only strummed it on an acoustic at this point. Getting the lyrics were more important. Like I told Henri, I'll throw up an MP3 of it soon.

Crawdad.
I can't belive the simplicitic complexity of your analysis of my song. I totally over looked everything you mentioned. You've opened up a few new avenues for me. I've been thinking of things since and really see what your talking about.
Everyone seems to miss the trees when the forest is before them. Until you can glide through the brush, track the stag, identify the moss on the log you'll stay in a state of beweilderment. Just like songwriting.
Of course you can see it, and hear it.
Your lucky to have a publisher like you did. It shows you heeded his advice.
Thanks again.
 
Hey Badgas,

How about using v.2 as a prechorus (possibly talking) and
musically pushing into the refrain---the lyrics suggest a piece that is musically spatial...I don't see anything wrong with posting a music link in this forum for rough drafts...Why put them in the clinic when the song is still a work in progress???

Graham.
 
Hey, Analog.
How you and Gina been doing? Well I hope.

I haven't thought of that idea of yours before.
I have been fiddling with a chorus a bit though.


I'm going to post something here later tonight or tomorrow night. Then with the music it may be easier to see what I'm doing.

Good luck on your work.
Oh, saw your collab at 'nowRec'.
Kind of a slow site, but there seems to be some good musicians there. It'll grow into something soon. I kinda like it there.
Later.
 
hey Badgas,

This is Billy Barker Days week here--I'm a festival director so up
to my *ss..Prism is headlining our free community concert on
Friday night (remember them???) and Lisa Brokop on Saturday
night ....
Also been approached by our local merchant's assoc. to start
a summer street music program---

Just means a busy summer..

Look forward to hearing your tune..

Graham.
 
First off, I'd like to thank everyone for the ideas you've put forth to me on this project.
Thank you, and I really mean it.

~ coughs ~

Thanks is a tough word for me to say. :rolleyes:

There is more to this song, but it's still in the works.
I'm refering to the 'chorus and third verse'.

Crawdad, I feel you know where this song is headed. And your comments about the verses dying for a chours was part of the build up I was hoping to keep when I mentioned that I wanted the basic meaning left as is. I also feel that now the meaning, after I took your recommendations, has made the build up a bit stronger.
You see more than you know, I think. :)

I did take your advice on several, but not all of your suggestions. What I'm not planning on changing is the bridge, as it leads into the 'chorus' you mentioned. But I'm still open on suggestions from anyone.

I did make the adjustments in the second verse to be compatible with the first, the 'internal rhyme' that you brought to my attention. I completely over looked it.

I also changed the last line in the first verse as you recommended.

The structure you mention sounds good but the chorus before the second verse would be out of place, the way I'm telling the story. I believe when I finish the chorus and third verse, you'll agree with the structure and the bridge. If not, I'd like to hear more of your ideas.

V/V/B/C/V/B/C, then fading out in solo.



Now, with all that out of the way, here's the 1st and 2nd verses with the bridge in text.
As soon as my hand gets some feeling back into it I'll record a small demo so you guys can hear the melody too. That always helps.

I don't foresee any problem with the chorus and third verse at this moment, but if I do, I'll squawk loud for help.

I'd like you guys to rip this edited version to shreds if you find something amiss or have ideas. I'd like to get this much of the song down and finished before I spend time on the rest. I'm twisting the story around a bit and want it as good as I can get it.
Like I said before, I have tough hide and take each suggestion give to me and mull them around. So don't think you'll hurt my feelers.

One last thing, in verse 2, third line, it matches the first verse, but there is a slight pause after the comma. It fits with the music and the theme, as far as I can tell.






Eyes Full of Tears

(((((Tape 2 - Side A)))))
G, D6, C9, Am7, C, G, D6, Am7, C, D7sus2, D7sus4, D7 = 100 BPM

Intro.
G, D, C, Am7,

(vs. 1)

I see your eyes are full of tears.
I reach out to you,
But you turn and walk away as if to say,
We're through,
And it really doesn't matter what I do.

(vs. 2)

The bedroom door swings slowly closed,
I hear it lock,
While you sob and cry, I wonder why
You won't talk,
And the fear within my heart will not stop.

(bridge)

Am7 C9 G D
Eyes full of tears are sad to see.
Am7
Eyes full of tears are haunting me.

==================

I know everyone writes their songs differently, and questions always come up about how and where the ideas come from.
Below you'll see some of the brainstorming I did on the second verse after Crawdad's recommendations.
Just lines in no order, but trying to keep to the theme of the song in my mind.
First off I'd write down words that rhymed with what I had, or words that I felt fit the theme.
Cry, Why, lock, rock, clock, etc.
Then I'd make the sentences.
Then I'd try to fit them into place, like a puzzle. Of course I had to change a word or two, again.
It's how I do it. If only one person gains a bit of something or a new idea from this I'll be happy to of helped and contributed to your songwriting as so many people here have done for me.

-----------
The bedroom door swings slowly closed,
You begin to cry,
While I ask my self why.
While the sounds of your crying fill the room,
Fear like a tomb,,,,,,,,,,,
The room is filled with your sobbing and crying,
While the sounds of your aching and your crying.
( [change this line] And I know that it's ended all too) XXX, sample (clock).
 
jeap said:
you know...

a lot of times lyrics dont really mean anything. you can throw them in for the way they sound.


That's a good way to get yourself written off as a writer too, IMHO. It worked great for Morrison, but how much acid is flowing through the general public these days?

When it comes down to it, if you can't find a rhyme, to hell with it. It's not your clever plays on words that your soul will shine through. Unless you're heavy into money shakin', 40 drinkin, gangsta rap....

Crawdad's first post is a good start...

Check out his thread in the MP3 clinic "Country Crawdad Style." It's not my genre, but his lyrics are both clever and soulful. But his soul shines brighter than his clever writing. And the music is quite good too.
 
Yeah, I agree with you, Sluice. Morrison wouldn't of made it today with the masses like he did in the early 70's. I use to play his music and listen to him, but have no interest in his music today. I guess cuz I don't do acid anymore.

I think this tune I'm working on would be in the R&B catagory.
I'm not looking for clever play on words, but words that keep the lyrical meter going in cadence with the first verse, thus keeping the listener's attention focused on my song instead of my hands on the guitar or wondering what the hell I'm bellowing about.

I have a hundred plus songs that don't play on words, and they don't hold an audience. I've played them enough to know. The songs I've worked on the rhyme in conjunction with the other verses get good comments on.
Not only when I post here, but when I do something live.

That for one thing tells me that the people, without saying or probably knowing it, can follow a rhymical lyric with my style of music better than on the songs telling a story without rhymes.

Besides, I like the challenge of rhyming.

I've listened to Crawdads song. Yes, it's a very good piece of work and I respect it, him and his input. But the styles are different.

Furthermore, Crawdad is a much better songwriter than I am. I don't really do his style of music.
I'm listening to him, you and others, but I have my style, and I'm comfortable with it. I want my songs to rhyme, and the ones I've done so far, rhyme. I'll keep at it, adjusting lines, words etc. till the song is done.
 
Right on badgas. I'm not saying don't rhyme. But just like you're doing, make rhymes that mean something. I'm no great writer, I'm just sick of people spewing nonsense all over music.
 
SluiCe. I'm not great either. Far from it. What I'm basiclly doing is getting my songs ready to burn to disk so I can give them to my kids and grandkids.
We've never been that close, mainly cuz I'm such a loner I guess, and I'd like them to know something about me and what I've done. So I'm not looking for recording perfection, only my songs on disk. And I'm having fun and learning a great deal in the process.
Getting a song to have an understandable story with all the 'correct' songwriting atributes is what I'm trying to do. Since I feel confident in my musical ability, it's the lyrics that hound me.
I rarely if ever comment on songs that spew nonsense in the name of music. I feel anyone can do that. Cripes, from this point in my post and up, I could put this to music. It would make as much sense as some songs I hear.
Just my personal opinion.
Guess I'm just old fashion.
 
I've come close to a complete song here. I think. Still some work, but it's getting close.
Again, I'd like to thank Crawdad for opening my eyes to see some peripheral goings on within a song. And again, I appreciate all the comments from everyone else whether I used them or not. I did try all of them in my lyrics at some point. Most just didn't fit in with what I was trying to do. Thanks guys.


In verse two, line three, there is a two beat pause at the comma to keep the lyrical meter running in the same rythem as the first verse. The friggin' thrid lines in the second and third verses were one of the hardest parts of writing these lyrics. And I still don't feel comfortable with those lines.
As usual, I'd like to hear some ideas, dislikes, what ever.
So here is the lyrics to this tune so far.

-----------------------------

Eyes Filled With Tears


(vs. 1)

I see your eyes are filled with tears.
I reach out to you,
But you turn and walk away as if to say,
We're through,
And it really doesn't matter what I do.

(vs. 2)

The bedroom door swings slowly closed,
Then I hear it lock,
While you sob and cry, I wonder why
You won't talk,
And the fear within my heart tears me apart.

(Bridge)

Eyes filled with tears are sad to see.
Eyes filled with tears are haunting me.

(Chorus)

If only you would of told me what was wrong.
We would talked about him because our love was so strong.
Instead you tried to save me while killing all of your fears,
Now I look at this emptiness and find it's my eyes filled with tears

(vs. 3)

This loneliness is so hard to bare.
There's no atmosphere,
And the silence is so loud beneath this cloud.
I can't hear,
And now I find it is my eyes filled with tears


(((((solo)))))
fades to effect.

--------------------

Ok, now about this effect. I'm going to make a rough recording with this effect. I've played if for my cousin and his wife last night. She jumped. I don't know if I'll use it on the final edit, but I may. When I get it posted here I'd like some input/output on it too.
In my warpped mind it completes the song. My cousin didn't know what to think about it and his wife was upset by it.
 
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