It's ain't the Pre...It's the Mic !

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mark4man

mark4man

MoonMix Studios
I can't take it...

I'm on my third world-class preamp (two of which many of the members here contributed toward helping me choose...for which I'm still very grateful)...& it turns out the buzz in my vocals is caused by my mic (an AT4050.) I don't know this to be a technical fact, mind you...but let me put it this way: my vocals are buzzing with my (year old) Universal Audio 2-610 & now my (brand new) Grace Design Model 101...& I don't remember anyone giving me the nickname "Buzz" for any of my vocal shortcomings (there may be another reason...but never mind...)

Anyway, I'm calling Audio Technica tomorrow to get either a return or repair authorization...but I'm wondering...where should I turn now if I want to grab a mic that will fit my pipes. I'm a mid-tenor with a lot of strength; & am capable of some pretty powerful resonance. In other words...on the "fog horn" scale...I'm only a few notches down from opera. And I'm afraid I might be vibrating the diaphragm to too great an extent, even at the proper distance.

Are there any mid priced large-cap studio condensers around that are built tough enough to capture a big mouth & still provide clarity & detail?

How about the following:

Rode NT2-A, NT1000
AKG C-414
Shure KSM27, 32, 44
Blue Bluebird
Neumann TLM 103

The Neumann's a bit out of my price range...but it's supposed to be the best at handling big SPL.

I don't know what in the hell I should do. How are the Shure's & the AKG's?

Does anybody else have this problem...a voice that may be too big? If so...what do you use?

Thanks,

mark4man
 
It is physically impossible for a human voice to achieve 149 SPL (do your ears bleed after you sing?), which is what the AT4050 is rated. So your mic might be defective (and not necessarily the diaphragm), or it just might not be suited for your voice. And no matter which pre you are using, you might be clipping it. Can you post a sample of your singing?

The problem with us remotely selecting a mic for you is they might highlight a resonance in your voice as well. The 4050 is reknown as a good all-around mic. So is the KSM44. There is really no way we can choose for you.
 
I know you would enjoy a high end dynamic on your voice and all over the place. An sm7 would be an affordable asset to your mic locker as would an RE 20 ( or as highup in the RE chain as you care to go)
 
You might want to try an SM7. Excellent dynamic vocal mic that can take a strong voice well.
 
mark -

i had this type of thing happen with a pair of 4051's CONSTANTLY. they were either overloading or resonating in the upper mids on cymbals and some operatic vocal demo gigs.

amazingly annoying.

AT is quite cool though - give em a ring. I live about 45 minutes from em and the once just took a mic back and replaced it new! i'm hoping they do that with our 4047 that sounds like a vaccuum cleaner suddenly.

however - on the 4051's they said i was overloading my M1's which was just not the case.

in general those AT mics are hotter than heck so perhaps an inline pad could help ya.

i never had the problem with the 414's.

good luck and see ya,

Mike
 
Thanks everyone...

Big Kenny & pohaku,

All I could find on the Shure site was an SM7B...which is a broadcast mic. Are they (the SM7's) discontinued?

Someone also told me to try an SM57...that Robert Plant used one (couldn't use anything else.)

Thanks again,

mark4man
 
mark4man said:
All I could find on the Shure site was an SM7B...which is a broadcast mic. Are they (the SM7's) discontinued?
Click to expand...

the sm7b is the "current" version of the sm7. the only difference between it and its predecessor (the sm7a) is the inclusion of some interference rejection circuitry which makes it "better suited" for use around CRT (computer) monitors. from what i understand, there's no difference in sound between the two.

i have an EV RE38 (which is a close sibling of the RE20) and I love it on vocals. everyone seems to want to use an LDC on vocals.....and it seems that people just don't think about using a good dynamic, which is a shame.


cheers,
wade
 
mrface2112...

Thanks.

Yeah...about dynamics...someone told me Chrissy Hynde (Pretenders) will only use an RE 20; & Robert Plant (Led Zepplin) would only use an SM57. I think I'm going that route.

mark4man
 
mark4man said:
I think I'm going that route.
Click to expand...

glad to know i could help. it's a matter of finding what mic works best on YOUR voice. bono uses an sm58 almost exclusively--even in the studio--b/c it works so well on his voice. paul rodgers used a 57 pretty regularly in the studio. same reason.

the thing to keep in mind with the sm57/58, though, is that you need a good preamp to really make those mics shine--you should be ok with that 610 or the grace....but i'd try the 610 first.

the other great thing about either the re20 or the sm7 is that you can use them on so many things--kick drum, bass amps, guitar amps, vocals, etc., and they rarely sound bad on anything.

and since they're such "classic" mics, you won't have a hard time getting near full value if you need to sell it sometime down the road.


cheers,
wade
 
HOLY SHIT !!! ...

An SM58 ??? Are you tellin' me I may be able to cure this problem with a one-hundred dollar dynamic (albeit a popular one-hundred dollar dynamic)? I have heard they love it for the upper mid boost, tho. This is very cool...I think I've come full circle.

mark4man
 
ixnay on the Robert Plant /sm57 urban studio legend (this must be a new twist the Bono/Tom Petty 57 legend..actual: Bono, U47...Petty, c12-1073-1176)...live ...yes...studio..no way! Tons of Zep studio footage around and alot of nice ldc's in front of him..I think Paul Rodgers of Bad Company/Free used a 57 on vox in the studio and by gawd those recordings sound like it...

Ray
 
mrface2112 said:
Always? :D
Click to expand...

from your list...

KSM32 is solid. I don't own it but the singer in my last band did and I recorded his vocals with it. his voice is along the lines of vedder and all the imitators... vox came out freaking SOLID.
 
FALKEN...

Thanks for that info. My 4050 was also supposed to be solid...but I'm having the problem I'm having, which is why I'm now leaning toward a dynamic (&...on your previous post...someone told me never to use a pad...dulls the sound...so now I'm paranoid over that.)

I looked at the response curves of both the RE 20 & the SM7B...& the RE 20 looks a bit too low endish for me (as the curve actually dips below 0dB at two points along the mids.) Probably give me too robust a sound. The SM7B looks a lot livelier in the mids, so I'm leaning toward that.

The only problem is...the curve on the SM7B & the SM58 are almost identical...& with what I've spent already on my current project, I'm wondering if the cost tradeoff will give me almost the same sound.

I guess I'll go listen to both of them & take my pre with me.

Thanks again,

mark4man
 
Ray & FALKEN...

You guys were right (not that everyone else was wrong...but, invariably it's what's best for your own voice, right?)

Anyway...I think I cured myself on the dynamic thing. Rolled down to Guitar Center & tried out the SM58 alongside the KSM27...ran them thru a Digi 002 (which should have fairly good pre's, right?) At first, I thought the dynamic was shiny & bright; & then here comes the LCD with so much more clarity & presence. So I went with the 27...it was also the only mic that contained my big vibrato (which amazed the crap outta' me...this was my original problem.)

Also tried out the TLM 103 while I was there. Nothin' against Neumann...but it sounded very bassy to me...didn't like it much at all. And the Rode NT1-A didn't sound so hot, either.

Got the KSM27 home & piped it thru my Grace 101; & it's doing a fine job. (It's got the same guts as the 32, FALKEN...but w/o all the switching & polar patterns.)

Listen with your ears (someone told me)...& not with subjecture & summation in the boards.

Thanks for your help & info (same goes for everyone),

mark4man
 
glad it worked out. the difference b/t the sm7 and the 58 I could only imagine would be a matter of quality of the signal. I was surprised at how similar my RE20 sounded to an sm57 when I first got it. I couldn't believe it. but I kept a/b'ing in the headphones, and after a while, I noticed it. After I noticed it, I couldn't not notice it. Its what they say, the higher up you go, the less the differences are... Its all just a matter of headroom, clarity, noise floor and distortion. which can make a huge difference when the song is all mixed and done.
 
rsolinski said:
ixnay on the Robert Plant /sm57 urban studio legend (this must be a new twist the Bono/Tom Petty 57 legend..actual: Bono, U47...Petty, c12-1073-1176)...live ...yes...studio..no way! Tons of Zep studio footage around and alot of nice ldc's in front of him..I think Paul Rodgers of Bad Company/Free used a 57 on vox in the studio and by gawd those recordings sound like it...

Ray
Click to expand...

On the Corrs Live In Dublin DVD featuring Bono, He does inded use an SM58 while the Corrs use Neumanns. This concert was a very well set up "Live Show" in a TV studio and sounds as pristine as any recording studio. Just a thought on Bono's use of a 58. I personally would not use one for studio vocals. ;)
 
macmoondoggie said:
use of a 58. I personally would not use one for studio vocals. ;)
Click to expand...

i wouldn't use a 58 for ANY of my vocals :D.........but that's b/c it's flat-out the wrong mic for my voice. give me a sennheiser or EV any day.


cheers,
wade
 
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