ITB Mixing, how good can you get it? (CLA content)

bkkornaker said:
Why wouldnt they want to do this you ask?

Well, once you convert a room into a real mixing room with foam panels, and moving the monitors in the right spot.......well now you have just that.....a real mixing room! Alot of hobbyist dont want to take it to that level, not for something they maybe they do once on a weekend here or there.....or when time permits after their day job.

I for one, would LOVE to convert my room into something as a "real setup" should be like. But simply the wife doesnt want that (LOL). Surely not worth doing for someone who is a novice/hobbiest who does music occasionally for self indulgence.

i think thats the problem here with alot of folks on this "Home recording forum", its has alot of people who like to record/mix at home simply for self indulgence (not recording/mixing other people, just doing it for their own music for fun).....for i am one of them.

then there are a few 'pro' people who make appearances and posts on this forum who have a real recording/mixing studio and charge $$ for clients. For the most part, they offer great advice........but the fact is.....alot of hobbiests just dont want to convert a room into something that might not get full use out of.

if i was going to open a real recording studio, YES....i would definalty have the room treated and the monitors placed in the right spots. But to convert my spare bedroom?........for something i wont even make $$ from?

naw.....ill pass. the occasional headphones check is fine for me....
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I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, but you're really answering your own questions.

You'd rather use impulses and software models than a live, loud, mic'd cabinet because you don't want to deal with the volume and the difficulty in micing a cab, especially with more than one mic.

You don't want to acoustically treat the room you work in because you don't want it to "look" like a studio, partly for your wife's sake and your guests' sake and partly because that involves crossing the psychological threshold between a "hobby" and a "serious pursuit."

You think an occasional "headphones check" is good enough, even though that conveys zero information about potential phasing issues.

And yet, you want to know why this dude (I'm getting a bit sick of seeing his initials used as shorthand too) consistently turns out a better sounding recording than you do, and what you can do to make your recordings better. Going out on a limb here, I think he's not too concerned with the appearance of bass traps or about not wanting to turn up an amp, or whatever.

Try this - you keep making excuses about why his stuff should be expected to be better than yours. Except, every time you make an excuse about why you're handicapped being a home recordist, stop dead, pause, reset, and think about that excuse and what you can do to overcome it. Start looking at it as a growth exercise. Ok, your room isn't very good? Rather than writing it off and moving on, what can you do to fix that? I was surprised how much just moving my monitors to a more appropriate position did for my ability to gauge bass response. You can't turn your amp up loud because you're in a 'normal quiet suburban home'? Ok, what can you do about that? Can you maybe demo with impulses, but go somewhere where you CAN turn up to track for real? Or maybe could you try a lower wattage amp? Off the top of my head, if you're a Legacy user, maybe a Egnator Rebel 20 would be right up your ally, with a TS9 out front.

Change your mindset. Don't look at them as limitations, look at them as challenges that you can overcome to make better mixes.
 
Hell, this was posted by a kid on a board I run with my buddy - what you see is pretty much what you get, and with a single SM57 at apartment friendly volume, he got an absolutely awesome sound out of this thing. Maybe a lower wattage amp would help you out.

[video=youtube;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta2if2WR_tQ&fmt=22]video[/video]
 
bkkornaker said:
WOW.....this is alot of brightening. On all the tracks im EQ'ing and then compressing so i can do some radical EQ changes
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Do the other way around. Compress first and then EQ. Or, if you're EQing first and compressing later, then take out some of the lows from the material so the low frequencies don't drive the compressor too hard.

Keep in mind that if you EQ first and them compress, the compressor will affect the overall tonal balance.
 
noisewreck said:
Do the other way around. Compress first and then EQ. Or, if you're EQing first and compressing later, then take out some of the lows from the material so the low frequencies don't drive the compressor too hard.

Keep in mind that if you EQ first and them compress, the compressor will affect the overall tonal balance.
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The better "metal" guys I've talked to (and I only specify a genre because pretty much everything is EQ'd and compressed to hell and back in the metal world, where "natural" and "organic" aren't really what you're after) usually use at least 2 EQs on each track - a "corrective" EQ track to get rid of all of the stuff you don't want, then a compressor so the signal being compressed is only what you want from the sound, and then a second EQ after the compressor to put in or take out a bit here and there from the compressed sound, to help it fit better in the mix.

At the very least, thinking about how you order your compression and EQ plugs is the sort of thing that makes perfect sense once it finally occurs to you, after years of not even thinking about it. :lol:
 
bkkornaker said:
SOLID TRUTH!

what you just said sums it up perfectly. "Honestly, man, there's only so much that can be done in the mix."

Sorry if we have been dancing around in circles, and i might have came off like a D*&khead.......but your advice is truly appreciated. The above quote kicks ass, and is so true.
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Ok, now I'm confused, because that's what I've been saying all along - if you want to get a better mix, focus on the tracking. Garbage in, garbage out.

I mean, I'm glad you're on board with me, but I'm just not sure what I said this time that I didn't the first thirty-seven odd times. :laughings:
 
Well, after a few more runs of tweaking.......heres what i got....

Recent Mix

This is my final attempt in getting a pro sounding mix (i wont mention the 3 letter abbreviated rock mixer). YES it was all done ITB, YES i have a shity room without treatment, YES the tracking was done using drum samples and fake simulated guitar cabinets, YES im an amateur hobbyist at music making.

in other words......i just attempted to polish a turd

:drunk:
 
The drum samples and the guitar cab impulses are not bad and are not hindering the mix in any way. It's a faulty assumption that anything professional only uses miked up cabinets and real acoustic drums. That's clearly not the case.

The trick in this exercise is to define what makes something sound like a CLA mix and apply that to the tracks you have. There is nothing about the quality of the tracks you are dealing with that will give you a problem other than the fact that CLA doesn't really mix this sort of music.
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
The better "metal" guys I've talked to (and I only specify a genre because pretty much everything is EQ'd and compressed to hell and back in the metal world, where "natural" and "organic" aren't really what you're after) usually use at least 2 EQs on each track - a "corrective" EQ track to get rid of all of the stuff you don't want, then a compressor so the signal being compressed is only what you want from the sound, and then a second EQ after the compressor to put in or take out a bit here and there from the compressed sound, to help it fit better in the mix.

At the very least, thinking about how you order your compression and EQ plugs is the sort of thing that makes perfect sense once it finally occurs to you, after years of not even thinking about it. :lol:
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Yeah, I just didn't want to confuse the issue more, but yes, first EQ to take out stuff that's offensive or you don't want affecting the compressor, second EQ to fine-tune and shape.
 
Almost 1 year later.......

And im posting again. I think i got it this time. Heres a new mix (No Vox, no solo guitar) and its just my "mix bed". What you guys think of this?

This is pretty damn CLA/Radio ready I think. I just need to record the Vox and add in some Solo guitar(s), Maybe a synth in the background (not sure yet).

View attachment 5-11-mas-bed.mp3
 
Bristol Posse said:
Maybe you should use the Waves CLA signature series signal chain plugs if you want to sound like CLA :laughings:
I'm sure it would be impossible to make a bad mix if you use those plugs
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Yes this is true...and they come with the "sound good" pre set so how could you go wrong with that. ;)
 
Man, the mastering compression about sucked my brains out through my headphones. I can't tell if its good because i cant listen with all that sucking/pumping going on. And no, I wont turn off the p.o.r.n. lol.

Seriously man, that is not good mastering or whatever you want to call that effect. Pull that crap out and post another. :)
 
Wow, tough crowd in here.........

Seems like eveything i post in here, is utter crap to you guys. Does anyone ever have something positive to say?
 
bkkornaker said:
Wow, tough crowd in here.........

Seems like eveything i post in here, is utter crap to you guys. Does anyone ever have something positive to say?
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Sorry, I should have said I like your work. I do. It was just hard to listen to with the compression going on there. Absolutely not crap. If it were, I would not have responded.

Didn't mean to offend man. I would love to help in any way I can to get your tunes to come across with the presentation/emotion/mix they deserve.

Jimmy
 
To be honest, it really sounds over compressed. If you've got compressors on the guitars, try removing them or hit them a lot easier; they're already compressed by virtue of the fact that they're distorted. The drums (especially the snare) are absolutely crushed. The mix needs more life (dynamic range). What is on the 2 buss?

If you want detailed critiques on the mix, you should post it in the mp3 mix clinic.
 
Sorry guys, i dont take offense to this at all. I know you guys are giving your thoughts and feedback, But this thread seems to have been nothing but "negative vibes' of "dont bother trying to achieve a CLA mix" it seems.

Im not posting here to necessarily critique my mix, but rather posting yet again on a year old thread of trying to get a "CLA Style" mix completely ITB. Its more of trying to de-bunk a myth on "Analog is better than ITB" thing. Its tough to try to do such a thing.

YES, this mix is over compressed. On purpose in fact. Most people HATE CLA mixes because of the over use of compression, and i simply am going that route. His mixes are a bit Bright/Sterile as well......another thing im going for.

Whats on the 2-buss? A SSL G-comp compressor (gain reduction of 0.7db), a API 2500 (gain reduction of 0.5) and a Pultec EQP-1A to boost the lows (1db) and the highs (1db). Nothing too extreme I would think.

As far as whats on the TRACKS, yes there some (sometimes ALOT) of compression going on).
 
I think you may be taking what you have heard about the CLA mixes, way to literally. That what comments you have heard of his techniques, as being how to achieve the sound. Yes, most of his productions are heavily compressed. That doesn't mean that compression is what makes his sound. Earlier comments about the importance of the original recorded signal is dead on correct. When tracking of instruments is done correctly, a minimal amount of compression, eq, and other tweaks are needed. You have some decent tone going on in your examples. I think you may be trying to hard, at the wrong time, with great intentions and hoping to solve problems that should not be of issue to begin with.

Approaching your songs with the intent of sounding like something else, to me sounds like a setup for failure. Not that it isn't possible, but that it limits your creativity to find 'your' sound. Chris definitely has a technique, yet his productions do not sound alike. The artist supplies the first and most important aspect to this sound. I myself try to get things in the ballpark of certain recordings, but that is inherently impossible without using the same players, equipment, room, humidity, toilet paper, and age of the Lava Lamps. CLA does have his own style, but it is only quality because of the music that is presented to him. Achieving his sound will involve proper recording techniques prior to using his gear or settings.

Don't get discouraged because you cant get the sound right at first. Just take steps to improve from the ground up.

:)
 
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