noisedude
New member
What do I need to isolate my monitors from my desk/stands? Just got my first proper ones but the floor is shaking and I don't think that's helpful for accurate referencing 
Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
I have each of mine sitting on 4 old mouse pads.
knightfly
GrouchyOldFartOnBatteries
Plus, you could fix your floor or turn it down; you'll get the most accurate mixes keeping your levels at around 85-90 dB spl.
Your ears can NOT tell you how loud you are, only if something is louder or softer; it's really easy to keep getting louder as you add tracks, change the mix, etc, and your ears will just "get used to it"...
So the only sane way to mix is to ALWAYS have an SPL meter sitting on the console, and readjust the master faders after a mix change so that the SPL stays at the same level (85 dB is the flattest response of the human ear, plus you can expose yourself (oops) to that level for 8 hours with no noticeable hearing damage, according to OSHA.
An occasional "blast" for effect is cool, but you do NOT want to mix (or make mix decisions) at those levels.
This reason alone is worth the $40 or so Radio Shack charges for their SPL meters... Steve
Your ears can NOT tell you how loud you are, only if something is louder or softer; it's really easy to keep getting louder as you add tracks, change the mix, etc, and your ears will just "get used to it"...
So the only sane way to mix is to ALWAYS have an SPL meter sitting on the console, and readjust the master faders after a mix change so that the SPL stays at the same level (85 dB is the flattest response of the human ear, plus you can expose yourself (oops) to that level for 8 hours with no noticeable hearing damage, according to OSHA.
An occasional "blast" for effect is cool, but you do NOT want to mix (or make mix decisions) at those levels.
This reason alone is worth the $40 or so Radio Shack charges for their SPL meters... Steve
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xstatic
New member
Whereas some of what Steve says is very true, there is no law that says you can't get a good mix at louder or softer volumes. Whats really important is that you mix within a range that you are comfortable with and familiar with.
As to the topic, the little Auralex mo pads are only like $30 for a pair. You could build your own for much less, but they may not look as nice
As to the topic, the little Auralex mo pads are only like $30 for a pair. You could build your own for much less, but they may not look as nice
knightfly
GrouchyOldFartOnBatteries
I disagree; mixing at much lower levels than I mentioned puts you into a range where human hearing isn't as sensitive to lower frequencies (or higher, somewhat) and so, even if the room is well tuned and you have good gear, you will tend to overdo the bass.
Mixing at higher than the levels I mentioned puts you at risk of hearing damage (if it's not already too late)
Ask ANY pro on this - including the guys who SET the standards; you'll get the same story, for the simple reason that it WORKS and doesn't HURT you... Steve
Mixing at higher than the levels I mentioned puts you at risk of hearing damage (if it's not already too late)
Ask ANY pro on this - including the guys who SET the standards; you'll get the same story, for the simple reason that it WORKS and doesn't HURT you... Steve
noisedude
New member
I'm not mixing at any higher than 85db ... I intend to hang on to my hearing ... but my floor is the ceiling of the room below - it's an old house and as a tenant I can't do anything about it. There's no insulation between floors at all and I'm upstairs. My electric piano shakes the internals of the whole house!!
X
xstatic
New member
Disagree all you want. EVERY pro I know only agrees on one single item across the board. That item is not that you have to mix at 85-90 db. The one thing (and the only thing) that they ALL seem to agree on is that a good mix happens when people aren't afraid to do something that might seem different to get what they want. That there are no rules, just suggestions and habits. Like I said, i agree with much of what you said, but just wanted to point out that nothing is a MUST.
knightfly
GrouchyOldFartOnBatteries
"a good mix happens when people aren't afraid to do something that might seem different to get what they want." -
I agree with that part for SURE; however, I already suffer from enough HF hearing loss without wanting to mix louder, and softer doesn't give me anything CLOSE to transportability of mixes. If you want to ruin your hearing early, go ahead and mix at 110; for me, no thanks... Steve
(yeah, I'll crank it momentarily for the "wow" factor, but not as a regular thing)
I agree with that part for SURE; however, I already suffer from enough HF hearing loss without wanting to mix louder, and softer doesn't give me anything CLOSE to transportability of mixes. If you want to ruin your hearing early, go ahead and mix at 110; for me, no thanks... Steve
(yeah, I'll crank it momentarily for the "wow" factor, but not as a regular thing)
MadAudio
Damned if I do
Two words: speaker stands.
My NS-10's are on a pair of homemade stands, and my Wharfedales are on a pair I got from American Musical (On-Stage brand, and they were having a 2-for-1 special).
My NS-10's are on a pair of homemade stands, and my Wharfedales are on a pair I got from American Musical (On-Stage brand, and they were having a 2-for-1 special).
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noisedude
New member
To be fair - it is, as I understand it, a fact that hearing is flattest at around 80-85db. That's psychoacoustics. But whether that's always the best thing for you to mix at ... is up to you.
Cheers, MadBloke.
Cheers, MadBloke.
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xstatic
New member
Well, the only time I really mix at 110 is live. I do a lot of large loud rock shows. In the studio, I am constantly up and down with the control room knob. I constantly refernce my mixes at varied volumes to see how well the image and balance holds. I even do a lot of mono checks (which a lot of people nowadays don't seem to do. Personally, I don't know exactly what level I normally listen at. Probably somewhere close to what you are suggesting. Is that db rating A slow? C fast? or one of the others? Out of curiosity I am going to check now. I can say though that certain styles of music I tend to listen to and mix at different volumes. It actually helps my translation. I don't think I am talking about critical volumes though. One thing I love about my Dynaudio's is that the response is VERY even bewtween different volume ranges. This has actually allowed me to lower the overall average speaker level while working. I also get my hearing completely charted every six months or so.
knightfly
GrouchyOldFartOnBatteries
I use C, slow mostly; A weighting is for lower noise levels so isn't as accurate, B weighting is actually what SHOULD be used at 80-90 dB levels (but can only be found on $$$$ meters :=(( so I use C - slow, because I want more the AVERAGE level at lower freq's in the room, and it takes some time for a room to respond at lower freqs.
I've mixed a few loud rock gigs (years ago) and between that and playing live quite a bit, I think that's where part of my hearing loss happened - that's why I've been being a lot more careful the last 10 years or so (be sure to close the barn door after the horse gets away...)
it's also kinda critical to get the SLM as close to your ears as possible, at least for periodic checks; X, Y, and Z axis locations will ALL change the results at lower freq's due to room modes, SBIR, etc. -
But the main thing is consistency of practices I think - especially when "pre-mastering" songs for a collection; if you want the songs to sound like they're part of an album, they need to be checked under the same conditions... Steve
I've mixed a few loud rock gigs (years ago) and between that and playing live quite a bit, I think that's where part of my hearing loss happened - that's why I've been being a lot more careful the last 10 years or so (be sure to close the barn door after the horse gets away...)
it's also kinda critical to get the SLM as close to your ears as possible, at least for periodic checks; X, Y, and Z axis locations will ALL change the results at lower freq's due to room modes, SBIR, etc. -
But the main thing is consistency of practices I think - especially when "pre-mastering" songs for a collection; if you want the songs to sound like they're part of an album, they need to be checked under the same conditions... Steve
E
Emusic
New member
Mixing at high levels for long periods of time are generally not recommended due to...
1) Long term physical damage
2) Ear fatique and general physic fatique.
3) At high levels the ear has different frequency response curves at high volume levels that overcompensate both on the high and low frequencies.
4) Balances tend to blur at high levels.
So mix pretty soft and crank it up every now and then to check the low end, moderate to check EQ and effects and soft for the final balances
short version by me
Source: The Mixing engineers handbook
ISBN 0-87288-723-5
A book that I really recommend
1) Long term physical damage
2) Ear fatique and general physic fatique.
3) At high levels the ear has different frequency response curves at high volume levels that overcompensate both on the high and low frequencies.
4) Balances tend to blur at high levels.
So mix pretty soft and crank it up every now and then to check the low end, moderate to check EQ and effects and soft for the final balances
short version by me
Source: The Mixing engineers handbook
ISBN 0-87288-723-5
A book that I really recommend
knightfly
GrouchyOldFartOnBatteries
Yup, all three of Bobby's engineering handbooks are worth having... Steve