Is this a stupid thing to do?

[Agtronic]

Hey guys!

I've been reading up a little bit on how poeple get a really nice SRV sound and everyone seems to mention the TS-808.

My understanding is that the TS boosts the input signal before it gets to the amp in order for overload the preamp tubes so that you get a natural amp distortion. I may be (and am probably) wrong about this, but I thought I experiment a little bit today.

I have many different amps and I've been really loving my Peavey Classic 50 4x10 combo. I've have been very happy with the clean channel, and pretty happy with the dirty channel, but it doesn't have the clarity, bass or "popping" thing ... (please forgive my poor vocabulary).

Anyways, I thought the dirty channel would sound absolutely killer if I could just get it to distort naturally.

This is what I did today :

(I have two Classic 50s, one is a 4x10 combo and the other is a head).

I plugged my strat into the front of the head, on the clean channel and set the volume to near max along with the gain. So the amp was basically on 10/10. I sent the effects send into the front of my other classic 50 (also on the clean channel) and set the input on the second amp to 10 and the volume VERY low. The sound I got was incredible. I really love it. It's exactly what I imagined it would be.

Now my question is, do you guys think this is bad for the amps? Is it okay to send such a strong signal into the front of the amp like that? Is it okay for the first amp to be on without a speaker load hooked-up? I don't want to damage anything!

If anyone cares, I'll make a sound clip of the sound I got. It's really sweet!

I'd appreciate any input!

 

[M.Brane]

Now my question is, do you guys think this is bad for the amps? Is it okay to send such a strong signal into the front of the amp like that?

If the effects loop is designed to work with stomp-box effects you should be OK. You'll probably chew through preamp tubes pretty fast though running that much gain.

Perhaps you should consider a Boogie if you really like that much preamp tube distortion.

Is it okay for the first amp to be on without a speaker load hooked-up? I don't want to damage anything!

You didn't disconnect the speakers from the power amp, did you? Not a good idea. If you just get no sound when plugging into the effects send & not the return that just means that you've interrupted the signal to the power amp. No harm in that.

BTW here's a good link on Tube Screamers. More to 'em than a simple gain boost.

 

[shredfit]

If your classic 50 head is not hooked yup to any speaker (no load), yes you are putting your amp at risk. This is a big No No, with tube amps...

However, there used to be people that did this...(just what your doing preamping(some call it clean boost) your other amp with a head, and there are certain custom made boxes(not speakers) that can supply your amp with a dummy load...just like having a speaker plugged in!

http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/dummyload.html

there is a link of dummy load circuit schematic that you could build or have an electronics tech build for you...

some more good info on the subject:

http://www.legendarytones.com/ASK_US_6.HTM

And if you don't wanna build one yourself(it may be a fun project for ya!) here is one you can buy!

http://www.gaspedal.com/thdhot.htm

Hope this helps

Shred

 

[grinder]

If you are using just the pre amp section of an amplifier, can you pop out the power tubes to avoid problems of no load?

 

[M.Brane]

As long as the speakers are hooked up to the amp there's no problem. On my Boogie head the amp still passes a signal to the power amp when you plug into the effects send. Plugging into the effects return interrupts the signal from the preamp to the power amp. I run the preamp into another amp sometimes for the different tones, and just turn the master on the Boogie all the way down. You could also just plug a patch cable into the effects return to interrupt the signal. If it hums that way just put a stomp-box on the other end of the cable.

Pulling the power tubes is not really necessary. Since they're not being driven they won't experience any significant wear.

 

[Agtronic]

Hey, thanks everyone for the info and useful links. I may try and make me a Tubescreamer.

I didn't even check to see if plugging in the loop send interupted the signal. If it does, then I'm in luck!

And yes, I did play it with no speakers hooked-up. My father actually told me not to do this but I tried it anyways, thinking the damage wouldn't occur right away. (Talk about being stubborn).

Anyways, I'm going to go check that out now.

I appreciate all the help! I'll record some samples for you guys! This sounds so good.

 

[grinder]

As long as the speakers are hooked up to the amp there's no problem. On my Boogie head the amp still passes a signal to the power amp when you plug into the effects send. Plugging into the effects return interrupts the signal from the preamp to the power amp. I run the preamp into another amp sometimes for the different tones, and just turn the master on the Boogie all the way down. You could also just plug a patch cable into the effects return to interrupt the signal. If it hums that way just put a stomp-box on the other end of the cable.

Pulling the power tubes is not really necessary. Since they're not being driven they won't experience any significant wear.

But, If you're using just the amplifiers' pre-amp and you're not plugged into a cabinet, would it make sense to remove the power tubes?

 

[M.Brane]

But, If you're using just the amplifiers' pre-amp and you're not plugged into a cabinet, would it make sense to remove the power tubes?

I don't see why you couldn't get away with that, but then I'm not an amp tech.

That would probably change the character of the preamp due to the extra current available. I've heard of people pulling unused preamp tubes from amps to get more headroom.

 

[Agtronic]

Okay, so I tried something today.

My amp doesn't interrupt the signal to the power section when I plug something into the send, but if I plug another lead (patch cord as M.Brane mentioned) into the return it cuts the signal. It did hum, so I plugged a pedal to it like suggested and it worked fine!)

So now I've been playing with this all night ... Right when I started getting bored, I recorded a small bit to show you guys the sound.

I really wish I knew how to record the amp. I think it sounds a lot different on the computer than it does in reality.


Here's the final signal route :

Fender Strat into bright input of Classic 50 head on clean channel, gain at 12, volume @ ~9-10, loop send into normal input of Classic 50 4x10 combo, on clean channel, gain @ 10 and volume REALLY low, like 1-2.

EQ on first amp : Treble 50%, Mid 100%, Bass 75%, Presence 80%

EQ on Second amp : Treble 75%, Mid 100%, Bass 100%, Presence 80%

Recorded with an SM57 in the grille.

SHORT SAMPLE (I'll make more when I'm feeling more "artistic").

I added some "room" in cooledit pro, probably too much, but it's too late now.

This sample only shows the hard attack sound. The guitar volume was at like 8. If I turn it down to like 3-4 the dynamics are really nice, I can play soft and it sounds like the Classic 50 clean channel, and if I attack it hard it sounds so glassy. Man, I'm really happy with it!

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[M.Brane]

Cool tonage!

Definately has that SRV vibe.

I've played through a few Classics, and found 'em to be pretty good amps if you don't need lots of volume. Great for small gigs & recording.

Glad I could help you out.

 

[grinder]

Nice tone.

 

[maestro_dmc]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I always understood that a tube amp should not ever even be turned on without a speaker load on it.

Even if there is no signal at the input.

I'd leave the tubes in and the speaker connected, and just interupt the signal with the effects return, like you said.

Just to be safe.

 

[Agtronic]

Nice tone.

Thanks!

I got some even sweeter tones out of it today, and I was trying to record it, but I didn't know what to play, it's like as soon as I'm ready to record, nothing comes out of my fingers ...