is there really that big of a difference?

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Nathan1984

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Ok so I am contemplating going with a pci interface. I am thinking about getting an RME 9632 I believe. It is a 24 bit/192 khz interface. The thing I was concerned about is that when you get an adat mic pre you can only get what the mic pre provides, in alot of cases only 24 bit/48 khz. So what is the point of having something that is capable of 192 khz if you are only able to get 48 to 96 khz in most cases. The second part of this question is, is there really that big of a difference in sound from 48 khz to 192 khz? I am thinking about just getting a focusrite octopre, which is capable of 96 khz to go with the RME, what do you guys say?
 
A big difference in what happens with 96 vs 48kHz is the available room for low-passing the audio (before conversion to prevent encoding misc hf uselessness) much higher past our hearing range. This avoids it messing around with stuff we CAN hear, since the filter can be well past our hearing before it begins. When this filter has to happen so close to our hearing range (like with 48khz) it's risking messing around with the things we can hear. Conceptually, you can't hear above what 48khz can offer, but the benefits of using these higher rates are very measurable- this is before you even consider it's benefits where time stretching/pitch change are concerned.
If you're going to drop the bucks on a new 8 banger pre, definitely think about going with something that can handle the higher sample rates (Presonus has 'em too) - this is not something that's going to go away any time soon, and in the years to come, when your PCI interface becomes dead and gone you'll still be looking to keep this 8pre unit part of your world.
 
If you are in a typical home recording environment, then I suggest that anything above 48khz is not worth thinking about. There are so many other factors that detract from the quality of recording that the notional gains you would get from 96, 192 or whatever are just not there.

Also, if you do a search, you will find vigorous debate about the merits or otherwise of higher sample rates. Some will assert better quality, others (like me) will assert that it makes no difference.
 
Brian Muth said:
A big difference in what happens with 96 vs 48kHz is the available room for low-passing the audio (before conversion to prevent encoding misc hf uselessness) much higher past our hearing range. This avoids it messing around with stuff we CAN hear, since the filter can be well past our hearing before it begins. When this filter has to happen so close to our hearing range (like with 48khz) it's risking messing around with the things we can hear.
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True but rendered irrelevant by oversampling converters which can have the same sort of analog filtering as high sample rate recording, then use much better digital processing for the remaining filtering required for 48/44.1kHz.
 
So in a nutshell, my RME pci interface, and a focusrite octopre with its 24bit/96khz sample rate should be more than sufficient for what I need, what are your feelings about the ART Optotube 8 pre, the Behringer ADA8000, and the Presonus 8 pre, apart from the Behringer they are all in the same ballpark for price. I have seen some pretty good reviews of the Behringer, considering it's Behringer. I guess all these pre's have pretty good reviews, but someone with experience with said mentioned would be nice.
 
So what is the point of having something that is capable of 192 khz if you are only able to get 48 to 96 khz in most cases.
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Most of the point is marketing. Looking at most (even quite recent) polls of full-time professional recording engineers, you'll find somewhere ~80% of them working at the target rate (44.1kHz for audio projects, 48kHz for video).

If your recordings don't sound absolutely spectacular and worthy of the highest praise from the audiophile community, it isn't the fault of your sample rate...
 
That's a good thing I suppose. That means I can go cheap with my pre's. I don't expect to get a 100k+ sound from a home studio, but if I can get close with a few hundred bucks, I will be happy.
 
Nathan1984 said:
That's a good thing I suppose. That means I can go cheap with my pre's. I don't expect to get a 100k+ sound from a home studio, but if I can get close with a few hundred bucks, I will be happy.
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You don't want to go cheap with your preamps... Those actually matter. All the gear matters. Experience matters (arguably more than the gear). I would certainly NOT expect to "get close with a few hundred bucks" -- That wasn't my point.

All other things being equal -- With a great core sound, a great mic, a great preamp, a great converter and a great engineer, you're probably going to wind up with a great recording.

What really isn't going to matter is the sample rate. You don't want cheesy converters -- You want good converters. You just don't need to run them at frequencies that record radar.
 
I personally don't think twice about 44 48 192 blah blah blah... if you can't make a good recording with the basic crap that's out there you probably can't make a good recording period. Even if I was some big time fancy pro with a million dollar studio I probably still wouldn't give a damn about some esoteric crap like that - if you can't hear the difference then there is no difference

of course I'm half deaf and the music I play sounds like crap to most people anyway so take it with a grain of salt.

I sure as hell wouldn't spend $450 on that PCi interface and an octopre though - there are a lot of better alternatives in that price range...

for one I would go external USB2 or Firewire just to make it easy to switch machines when my PC becomes obsolete in about 3 weeks
 
Nobody can hear above 24kHz so there's absolutely nothing to gain by using higher than 48 kHz sample rate. As to pre amps, the only important thing to consider is hiss. I made a very low hiss pre amp for only a few dollars/pounds (with MSH's help) and I think it's as good as any commercial pre amp costing 100's.
 
One other reason to consider keeping your sample rates down to 44.1khz or 48khz is processing resources. Audio doesn't take a lot of horsepower for your computer, but when you start running plugs and samples and everything is at 96khz or higher, your computer has to process a ton-ass (you can quote me) more data. There will be a point where it can't keep up. I used to record at 96k and switched to 44.1k and the load was lightened by more than double.
 
Isn't there another 5-plus page discussion about this still on page one of this forum?
 
I don't really worry about my computer, I have a killer computer for this purpose, and I do have a few usb interfaces for mobile tracking, I just want a pci for my home computer recording. I actually have a laptop with a dual core intel with 4 gb ram for my mobile, my desktop is a beast with an amd phenom II x6 1100t processor, with win7 64 bit with 16 gb of ram. My desktop was hand built just for recording, it isn't hooked up to the internet, I don't play games on it, I only record with it. Made sense to get a pci for it. That is why I am wanting one. I like the input I am getting on this matter though. I have been running 24 bit/ 96 khz with my desktop, even with twenty tracks and 10 plug in's each, sounded like shit with so much but lol, I can't slow this computer down. I literally pushed it as hard as I could when I got it, just to make a point I guess. I wanted to make sure I could record more than I ever would want to with it. I can run ezdrummer, superior drummer, 10 tracks +, 2 soft synths, without even using a tenth of my processing power. I just want better quality than a tascam us800 for recording.
 
Nathan1984 said:
I don't really worry about my computer, I have a killer computer for this purpose, and I do have a few usb interfaces for mobile tracking, I just want a pci for my home computer recording. I actually have a laptop with a dual core intel with 4 gb ram for my mobile, my desktop is a beast with an amd phenom II x6 1100t processor, with win7 64 bit with 16 gb of ram. My desktop was hand built just for recording, it isn't hooked up to the internet, I don't play games on it, I only record with it. Made sense to get a pci for it. That is why I am wanting one. I like the input I am getting on this matter though. I have been running 24 bit/ 96 khz with my desktop, even with twenty tracks and 10 plug in's each, sounded like shit with so much but lol, I can't slow this computer down. I literally pushed it as hard as I could when I got it, just to make a point I guess. I wanted to make sure I could record more than I ever would want to with it. I can run ezdrummer, superior drummer, 10 tracks +, 2 soft synths, without even using a tenth of my processing power. I just want better quality than a tascam us800 for recording.
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It's getting very hard to find PCI and PCI/e audio based interfaces. The general trend has been towards Firewire and USB for quite some time.
 
Here is my solution actually. This is my idea for a perfect setup. I am gonna get the echo layla 3g pci interface with a motu 8pre interface that I can use as either pre amp or a firewire interface, how's that for a slice of fried gold? Then I would kill two birds with one stone, not only would I have a pci interface for recording at home, but if I need to leave to do mobile tracking, I can hook the motu up to my laptop and bam! 8 pre's, love it.
 
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