Is there a term for this?

spantini

spantini

COO of me, inc.
I've been deconstructing a poor mp3 recording of an old band tune from the 70's. I worked out a new bass part, now I'm onto figuring out which guitar chords were used.

The past two days, I had it all worked out, or so I thought. When I played along with the vocal and bass something wasn't right and it took me until a few minutes ago to figure it out.

It centers on the A and Am. Playing my bass part to the original recording, I play an A to kick off the chorus, so while working out the new rhythm guitar part, playing an A conflicts with the vocal. I kept thinking it was due to the poor recording or the vocal being sung slightly flat. I finally figured out that the guitar should be playing an Am with the bass holding it up with the A.

Getting to the thread's question, is there a term for the bass note being (in this case) an A while the guitar (in this case) plays the Am - the bass not being able to play an Am?

The original rhythm guitars (there are two) are buried in the vocal, I couldn't pry them apart, they behave as one in the parametric EQ. Once the vocal comes in the guitars are smothered, which makes it difficult to catch that Am from either guitar.
 
I suppose the Am could actually be a C Major 6 chord, so the bass note would work as a C, but difficult to say without hear the context. There’s an old trick for doing weirder key changes where you pick a note in the previous chord and just move everything else and it sort of pops into the new one very strangely. A sort of pivot point and the bass root for the root of each one sounds very strange, but it works. My guess based on the A to Am changes messing the bass up is that it’s not really Am but maybe C6 but with the 5th missing? Something like that?
 
I found a C chord could be substituted in the progression and would work fine outside of the context of this song, but won't fit the vocal. Actually, it isn't as dissonant as the A here, but still not right. The Am doesn't stand out much, but blends in nicely with no dissonance. The bass' A note works fine with the A or Am guitar chord - this is what prompted my original question. Since the bass doesn't offer an Am note, is there a term for this relationship? Probably not, I expect.
 
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Yeah.. the bass doesn't have an Am note, so the A is played against the Am chord. I was wondering if there was a term or expression for this relationship.
 
Maybe you need to change the note you are playing, to one of the others in the Am chord, Don't go straight to the root. try starting on the C or E instead on the bass, then moving to the A.
 
The bass is fine. Playing the A on bass doesn't conflict with the vocal. It's the guitar's A chord conflicting with the vocal. The Am on guitar and A on bass work well together against the vocal. The way I'm reading everyone's responses here is you're thinking the bass' A note is my problem - it isn't.. works fine. It's the guitar's A chord that's creating the dissonance.
 
spantini said:
The bass is fine. Playing the A on bass doesn't conflict with the vocal. It's the guitar's A chord conflicting with the vocal. The Am on guitar and A on bass work well together against the vocal. The way I'm reading everyone's responses here is you're thinking the bass' A note is my problem - it isn't.. works fine. It's the guitar's A chord that's creating the dissonance.
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Umm... could you post a clip to help us help you? I'm kinda lost!
 
So ignoring the specific arrangement you're working with, you're trying to describe or name what it's called when you play an A on the bass under an Am on guitar? Am I reading that correctly?

If so, that's just playing the root. If the guitar is playing an A chord of any variety (maj, min, sus, dim, whatever), A is the most obvious choice for the bass to play too.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
So ignoring the specific arrangement you're working with, you're trying to describe or name what it's called when you play an A on the bass under an Am on guitar? Am I reading that correctly?

If so, that's just playing the root. If the guitar is playing an A chord of any variety (maj, min, sus, dim, whatever), A is the most obvious choice for the bass to play too.
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Yes. That's it exactly. "... that's just playing the root." will do it :guitar: I figured there would be some description for this. Didn't know if there was a more technical term.
 
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The old recording I'm working off of is poor in that the vocal and rhythm guitars all meld into one sound, and it's worse at the beginning of the chorus where I can't tell if the rhythm guitars are playing an A or Am. When I play a new guitar part over it they all just meld together and I can't even hear what I'm playing unless I turn it up, then I can't hear the other guitars - so it's a mess and I can't tell if my A is correct or my Am is correct.

When I play a new rhythm part over the two original guitars, it's like there's phase cancellation going on. No musical tonality at all when I do this.

The bass playing the root A note sounds fine, it's not conflicting with anything.

I'll probably just go back to playing the A chord on rhythm guitar at the chorus, it's easier and won't really matter after I record a new vocal. . . which will match the A chord and all will have much more separation.

I'm playing the new rhythm guitar part with a Strat through an AmpliTube Brit 8000 modeled after the JCM800. It's a really nice sound, just the single-coil bridge PU with full tone and it sounds almost like a humbucker.
 
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Kind of like Bob Seger's Turn the Page. Learning it form the radio back in the early 80s, the A major sounded like A minor. Most people played it that way. Years later, found it was actually A major. I still hear people playing it wrong.
 
:LOL: I just did a search for chords & lyrics of Turn the Page, and the first three results were all different. I got an A major, an Asus4, and an Am.
 
spantini said:
The old recording I'm working off of is poor in that the vocal and rhythm guitars all meld into one sound, and it's worse at the beginning of the chorus where I can't tell if the rhythm guitars are playing an A or Am. When I play a new guitar part over it they all just meld together and I can't even hear what I'm playing unless I turn it up, then I can't hear the other guitars - so it's a mess and I can't tell if my A is correct or my Am is correct.

When I play a new rhythm part over the two original guitars, it's like there's phase cancellation going on. No musical tonality at all when I do this.

The bass playing the root A note sounds fine, it's not conflicting with anything.

I'll probably just go back to playing the A chord on rhythm guitar at the chorus, it's easier and won't really matter after I record a new vocal. . . which will match the A chord and all will have much more separation.

I'm playing the new rhythm guitar part with a Strat through an AmpliTube Brit 8000 modeled after the JCM800. It's a really nice sound, just the single-coil bridge PU with full tone and it sounds almost like a humbucker.
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If it's a standard Am being played, rather than a 7th of some kind then the vocal clash would have to be either the third or the fifth, since the duplicate root on the bass does not 'rub" against the vocal. I suspect the flat 3rd since it's not a Perfect interval, but the vocal could sill be rubbing against the fifth. It depends entirely on the notes of the vocal.
 
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