Is One Monitor Any Use??...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lotus
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Yeah, I've read about people who've gotten a usable sound (more as an effect, I think) by putting phones straddling a guitar body. Press your ear onto the guitar as you play and listen to the difference in tone there.
 
Just for the record, I meant that the sound would be OK when listened to *through* headphones, because you will hear what the mic is hearing in the near field. I did not mean I was using the cans for a mic or a speaker, or anything else. It does intrigue me, though. I wonder what I would hear if I plugge some cans into the POD, and then rubber banded them to both sides of a figure-8 mic, and sent *that* to the Avalon. That's got to be different. Who knows? it *would* move air. It might or might not suck. I may try that tonight just for shits and giggles. One thing's for sure- I should get great isolation.-Richie
 
Man .. be careful not to blow that mic .. the SPL inside a pair of closed-back phones could be deceptively high!

How would I go about trying the trick over an acoustic? As in - plug it into a DI box? Or would it treat the stereo input as a balanced input and screw stuff up? Hmmm ... what kinda stuff accepts unbalanced one-jack stereo inputs?!
 
No worries on blowing a mic. You start at 0 and slowly increase gain. Unless the track is wildly dynamic, nothing that's tracking at -6 db is going to blow a C414, or for that matter, a B.L.U.E. Kiwi.-Richie
 
Well, I tried the experiment for jollies. I used the Kiwi,in figure 8, into Avalon AD2022, with Sennheiser HD280's coming out of POD Pro 2.0. I used preset 1a, which is very clean, as they go. I think it's a model of a blackface twin.
Result? I was wrong. It *doesn't* move air. It sounds almost exactly like the Pod DI. However, the interesting part was- if you use any reverb whatsoever, it becomes an instant tutorial in phase distortion. Ooh baby. You can add reverb later, in the box, or by re-amping, and it's OK. But why go through the gyrations if it's going to sound the same as if you plugged it in? Let's call this one an educational failure.-Richie
 
Ok, well that's a good start, at least I know one experiment NOT to bother trying. Maybe with a pair of crappy phones it'd make some difference, but that I guess would be just down to the phones themselves rather than some clever technique.

Now what about my idea of using the phones as the mic?
 
Hey - I am just about where you are in this process (new too) . Just posted a ? asking someone else to explain what a monitor is and what it does? Just got done buying a lot of equipment (tight budget) and now am wondering if I missed an important piece...I work with a pc and other equipment...hows does the monitor fit in here and what do you use it for? Thanks for everyone's patience
 
Riverdog said:
Hmmm...

Very interesting thread...
- 1. If you're going to record music - Use stereo...

- 2. Montiors are usually sold individually so that manufacturers can give you the price (ea.) and make you think the TWO speakers in the picture are cheaper... (This is my thought anyway! :rolleyes: )

- 3. I like mshilarious's idea that you use it in conjunction with a larger system... Get two studio monitors and use it as a subwoofer (If the frequencies are that low), or part of a surround system...

- 4. The only thing I can think of that I'd use a single monitor for would be some of the suggestions listed here... a. check for phasing b. plug in an effects pedal as an amp or something like that...

Do you understand the stereo concept???
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I would like to hear 'the stero' concept if you have a few minutes. I am a therapeutic storyteller and record with different 'sounds' or 'native flute music' in the background. It is my understanding that I am recording single track and importing the music...I think...I am new...thanks for your patience
 
When you say 'speaker' is that different from 'monitor'? Again...I am new...thanks for patience.
 
OK, Cheywind- Here's the Reader's Digest version. Stereo recording is a system using 2 microphones to simulate the sound reaching your ears, in order to create an acoustic model of what you would have heard if you were in the room when the sound was made. Note that if an object is to your left, the sound is not only louder in the left ear, but reaches the left ear a fraction of a second before the right ear. Your brain interprets these signals so that you know the sound source is to your left, and approximately how far to the left.
There are multiple stereo recording techniques. The most common are coincedent (X-Y), ORTF, mid-side (MS), spaced, and binaural. I will not try to detail those here, but you can check DPA's website. Click on "microphone university", and you will get an overview of the various systems. Note that true stereo recording *cannot* be done without 2 microphones, usually "matched (as identical as possible). There are, however, "stereo" mics, which are basically 2 mics in a single housing. They are sometimes called "one point" mics. Therefore, just because you are recording to 2 tracks with 2 mics does *not* make it a stereo recording. There are some systems to try and simulate stereo recording by copying a mono track to a second track, and then delaying it slightly. Then the tracks are "panned", which defines how much of the signal comes out of the left speaker, and how much out of the right. These simulations are not stereo recording, they are a substitute for the real thing. As I said, stereo recording is only a model. In spaced stereo recording, the 2 mics may be 20-30' apart. Your ears sure as hell aren't. Probably the most accurate model is binaural, where a model of a human head is used, with 2 mics placed where the ears would be on a real head. Note that the most accurate model isn't necessarily the one that sounds best, when all is said and done. Some models are like an MC Escher painting. It sounds good, but could never exist in the real wourld. Obviously, to listen to a stereo recording, you need 2 speakers, not one.
What is a monitor? An audio monitor is a speaker, or more commonly, 2 speakers in the same enclosure (tweeter for high frequencies, woofer for low frequencies) that is designed for critical listening. Some have built in amplifiers (active or "powered" monitors). Others require a separate power amplifier to drive them (passive monitors). Your home stereo or computer speakers are not monitors. They are designed to sound good, not to tell the truth. They don't reproduce frequencies that are not part of the music, and are designed to reduce or eliminate hum, hiss, crackle, rumble, boom, white noise, or anything else that isn't part of the music. Monitors are designed to reproduce everything that is on the recording, including things that suck. If you can't hear it, you can't get rid of it. The difference between audio speakers and monitors is the difference between a made up, airbrushed, mood lighted picture of a Playboy centerfold, and the way she looks when she gets up in the morning with a hangover and no makeup.
As such, monitors are absolutely necessary for mixing and mastering audio. No, you can't do it with even very good stereo speakers, or headphones, or anything else, and get good results. Some systems use a separate subwoofer. Because bass frequencies have such a long wavelength, they reach the 2 ears at pretty much the same time and amplitude. Therefore, a sub will have a crossover, which sends frequencies below a certain setpoint to the sub, and frequencies above the setpoint to the left and right main speakers (mains), sometimes called satellites. In passive systems, if a sub is used, there is usually a separate crossover unit, after the power amp, that does the same thing.
Proper monitors are one of the most important parts of a recording studio, and are often underfunded by people who have convinced themselves they can do without them. I would say that monitors are an essential item that should be on any projected studio gear list. Expect some sticker shock here, as good ones are quite pricey. Remember, one of the things monitors help you to do is find noise. That means that if monitors *make* noise, they are pretty much useless. Amplifiers and speakers that make damn little noise don't come cheap. Get over it. Hope that helps-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
OK, Cheywind- Here's the Reader's Digest version. Stereo recording is a system using 2 microphones to simulate the sound reaching your ears, in order to create an acoustic model of what you would have heard if you were in the room when the sound was made. Note that if an object is to your left, the sound is not only louder in the left ear, but reaches the left ear a fraction of a second before the right ear. Your brain interprets these signals so that you know the sound source is to your left, and approximately how far to the left.
There are multiple stereo recording techniques. The most common are coincedent (X-Y), ORTF, mid-side (MS), spaced, and binaural. I will not try to detail those here, but you can check DPA's website. Click on "microphone university", and you will get an overview of the various systems. Note that true stereo recording *cannot* be done without 2 microphones, usually "matched (as identical as possible). There are, however, "stereo" mics, which are basically 2 mics in a single housing. They are sometimes called "one point" mics. Therefore, just because you are recording to 2 tracks with 2 mics does *not* make it a stereo recording. There are some systems to try and simulate stereo recording by copying a mono track to a second track, and then delaying it slightly. Then the tracks are "panned", which defines how much of the signal comes out of the left speaker, and how much out of the right. These simulations are not stereo recording, they are a substitute for the real thing. As I said, stereo recording is only a model. In spaced stereo recording, the 2 mics may be 20-30' apart. Your ears sure as hell aren't. Probably the most accurate model is binaural, where a model of a human head is used, with 2 mics placed where the ears would be on a real head. Note that the most accurate model isn't necessarily the one that sounds best, when all is said and done. Some models are like an MC Escher painting. It sounds good, but could never exist in the real wourld. Obviously, to listen to a stereo recording, you need 2 speakers, not one.
What is a monitor? An audio monitor is a speaker, or more commonly, 2 speakers in the same enclosure (tweeter for high frequencies, woofer for low frequencies) that is designed for critical listening. Some have built in amplifiers (active or "powered" monitors). Others require a separate power amplifier to drive them (passive monitors). Your home stereo or computer speakers are not monitors. They are designed to sound good, not to tell the truth. They don't reproduce frequencies that are not part of the music, and are designed to reduce or eliminate hum, hiss, crackle, rumble, boom, white noise, or anything else that isn't part of the music. Monitors are designed to reproduce everything that is on the recording, including things that suck. If you can't hear it, you can't get rid of it. The difference between audio speakers and monitors is the difference between a made up, airbrushed, mood lighted picture of a Playboy centerfold, and the way she looks when she gets up in the morning with a hangover and no makeup.
As such, monitors are absolutely necessary for mixing and mastering audio. No, you can't do it with even very good stereo speakers, or headphones, or anything else, and get good results. Some systems use a separate subwoofer. Because bass frequencies have such a long wavelength, they reach the 2 ears at pretty much the same time and amplitude. Therefore, a sub will have a crossover, which sends frequencies below a certain setpoint to the sub, and frequencies above the setpoint to the left and right main speakers (mains), sometimes called satellites. In passive systems, if a sub is used, there is usually a separate crossover unit, after the power amp, that does the same thing.
Proper monitors are one of the most important parts of a recording studio, and are often underfunded by people who have convinced themselves they can do without them. I would say that monitors are an essential item that should be on any projected studio gear list. Expect some sticker shock here, as good ones are quite pricey. Remember, one of the things monitors help you to do is find noise. That means that if monitors *make* noise, they are pretty much useless. Amplifiers and speakers that make damn little noise don't come cheap. Get over it. Hope that helps-Richie
Click to expand...
Richie - I would say thank you -but that seems less then adequate - but thank you anyway - this would have been one whole year of readers digest! I am not in the studio right now - so I cannot remember the name I am looking for - we have (yet to be opened and put together) a speaker system that I believe is being called an
'entertainment system' with about 6 speakers and 1 woofer - I cannot read the specs on it without being there - so this is off the top of my head - simple question - should I return it?
CheyWind
 
OK, you had the long post. Here's the short post- Yes. Return it, and buy a pair of reference monitors. For cheap, I like M-Audio BX5's They are weak on bass, but they'll get you started. Later, add the SBX subwoofer, which is designed to work with them. You'll be fine.-Richie
 
"The difference between audio speakers and monitors is the difference between a made up, airbrushed, mood lighted picture of a Playboy centerfold, and the way she looks when she gets up in the morning with a hangover and no makeup."

LOL!!...I like this part! Was that part of the article or did you make it up all on your lonesome richard monroe?
 
Richard Monroe said:
OK, you had the long post. Here's the short post- Yes. Return it, and buy a pair of reference monitors. For cheap, I like M-Audio BX5's They are weak on bass, but they'll get you started. Later, add the SBX subwoofer, which is designed to work with them. You'll be fine.-Richie
Click to expand...

I was thinking about the subwoofer route also...so you reckon the BX5's are ok then eh??
 
noisedude said:
Yes they're a good enough starter pair. Also the ESI nEar05 set is good for a similar product if they sell them in the States.
Click to expand...

i was thinking about the near05 too..they look good..im in sweden and they arent a problem to get here...
 
They got a mention in Sound on Sound this month and Paul White (one of about three of their writers who I actually trust) reckons they're reasonably accurate for lower volume and smaller rooms. I reckon either would suit you fine, the much-maligned Alesis M1As are actually fine too - just shove a couple of socks in the bass ports to make up for your room being crap and they are totally fine to use.
 
noisedude said:
They got a mention in Sound on Sound this month and Paul White (one of about three of their writers who I actually trust) reckons they're reasonably accurate for lower volume and smaller rooms. I reckon either would suit you fine, the much-maligned Alesis M1As are actually fine too - just shove a couple of socks in the bass ports to make up for your room being crap and they are totally fine to use.
Click to expand...


cheers for that! ;)
 
As far as the comment on the centerfold, yep that's me quoting me. I used to live with a Playboy bunny who's a makeover expert, and I'm speaking from experience. She turned down the centerfold of Penthouse because she won't pose nude. She would get up looking pretty ordinary, but 40 minutes of warpaint later- ooh baby.
Yes, I like the BX5's. I actually use their predecessors, SP5B. I had just gotten so I could mix with them, which meant mixing bass *down* all the time. Then I added the SBX sub, and mixing is 1000% easier. They put the bass ports in the back, because they were always intended to work with the subwoofer. Until you get the sub, if you put a wall or a sheet of plywood about 2 feet behind them, your life will be simpler. Since I got the sub, I no longer have Genelec envy.-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
I used to live with a Playboy bunny who's a makeover expert, and I'm speaking from experience.
Click to expand...

Lucky sod!! ;)

..I was also weighing up the tannoy active reveals with a couple of others so im still trying to make up my mind...decisions, decisions.. :rolleyes:
 
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