Is my mastering anywhere near decent?

D

Daniel England

New member
Hi, I'm new here and to "home recording" as well. I'm looking for constructive feedback on my mastering.

I'm using a Sonar X1 with a SonicCell and its mastering (using one MFX unit as a gate and its three band limiter/compressor "master effect") so I'm having to do mixing at the same time. Its a little awkward, am I getting anywhere? I don't have a "treated" room nor monitors but I've tried several environments and have been tweaking the set-up as I go.

I guess I should point out that I didn't write nor do I own this song... I'm still workikng on getting the sounds that I want.

I'm using it as one of my reference tracks. It was a internet midi and I did rearrange and "replay" much of it though and I put in a whole heap of expression etc. Oh, its still WIP. It does have a lead vocal "shadow" track but I've left it out for this.

Now on SoundCloud.

The premaster:




The master:




Thanks for your time!


Daniel.
 
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Good god - that file download site sucks. Just took 10 minutes for the free download. Put this on a faster site or you'll never get any repsonses.
 
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If you didn't write or own the song, you probably shouldn't be screwing around with it like this without the proper rights to do so. Some copyright owners/ licensing agencies may take a dim view of it.
 
Hrmmm... Ahh...

Its a cover. I'm making a cover. I started with a fairly crappy midi file and rearranged, replayed and basically remade it and "rendered" it using my sound module. I'm wanting to use it as a reference for my other tracks.

I think I'm getting there with the mixing I'm just wondering about my mastering.

I've uploaded it on SoundCloud? See first post.


Daniel.
 
(Going to sound harsh - I'm sorry).

(A) No one can tell you how the mastering is without hearing the unmastered mix first.

(B) That said -- I'm going to have to guess Ozone.

Why?

The problematic phase issues in the low end -- The entire signal below around 250Hz is flopped out of phase and time shifted. The only thing I know of off hand that can inflict that sort of damage is Ozone.

A lot of people think I'm an "Ozone basher" -- I'm really not. I don't personally like it, but it's just another tool and it's only as dangerous as the person using it. That said -- There should be a giant red warning label that come up on the screen when it applies a Haas filter to the low end.

Otherwise, the whole thing sort of sounds like it's a recording of a song coming out of speakers. I mean it sounds like microphones picking up a recording coming out of a stereo in a room. It's really odd - Like the whole thing was washed in early reflections.
 
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Hmm. Well, at least it sounds like something. Its actually being done by the SonicCell mastering effect (3 band limiter/compressor).

I believe I know where the phase and reflection problems are coming from - a chorus effect at 180 degrees applied to the bass line.

I'll experiment some more. Thanks.


Daniel.
 
Typically, I'd highly suggest NOT using any sort of maul-the-band (multi-band) compression unless there's something that's so screwed up, nothing else will fix it. That all said -- Again, without hearing the original mix, there's really no way to make an accurate comment on the mastering processing.
 
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Okay. I've fixed those issues I think. I agree, it sounded like the bass was in the wrong direction and was rather "pulsating". I've also completely changed the way the mastering is done.

I'm using software effects instead of the hardware. I'm using an EQ, compressor and limiter. I can see how the multi-band compressor could be redundant with the EQ. I was basically trying to implement all three in a single effect on the SonicCell. Yes, it could get ugly. I'm using a multi-band compressor though because I want more control over which sounds are compressed in favour of others.

Still left to fix though, is a lack-lustre snare, coarse congas, fickle brass, some "early", some "late" strings and lack of guitar expression. *sigh* (Update: I've fixed much of that but I'll upload to SoundCloud later)


Anyway this is the premaster:




And this is the master:




I've kept the vocal "shadow" in since it was affecting the mix too much to leave it out (at least for now).

I hope I can still get some constructive feedback. Is it going anywhere? I think it could be a little limp below around 125Hz but I'm unsure?

Thanks!


Daniel.
 
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The second file sounds overly harsh on the high end and high mids. One thing I do notice that the second file revealed is what sounds like some tambourine bells that don't come across too well in the first file. I would bring those up a tad in the mix.
 
Honestly, you shouldn't even be thinking about mastering at this point in time. You still have many many mix issues that need to be taken care of. This isn't near ready for mastering.

Even you say:
Daniel England said:
Still left to fix though, is a lack-lustre snare, coarse congas, fickle brass, some "early", some "late" strings and lack of guitar expression. .
Click to expand...
Those are all mix issues, and even tracking issues. "Mastering" can't fix any of that.
 
So you're saying that I can't learn to master a track without it being perfectly mixed? Tosh. I would have thought that was what providing before and after versions was for.

I find that going through a mastering process highlights the issues. I wouldn't have noticed the strings so much unless I put it through compression etc.

The problems I mentioned are so trivial, I can't believe they even got another mention. I'm certainly not looking to fix them with mastering, I know its patch choices and expression controllers. I don't even know what you are referring to by "tracking issues". I'm assuming tracker as in a type of sequencing but I'm not using that type.

I need to be able to go through to mastering to "prove" the settings I'm using to make a reference set-up. I need to know if the room and speakers are set-up anywhere near properly as well as having a track and processes as a reference.


Daniel.
 
MrWrenchey said:
Wait, you're trying to master an already mixed/mastered professional track...?
Click to expand...

? This is not a professional mixed or mastered track.
The Mix does not sound good in the first place which makes it very hard to master.

The mix is really muddy and unclear, which you have tried to fix at mastering but this has made the end product sound scooped in the low mids, and the high end sounds unnatural.

Overall not a good mix to learn how to master with, and not a great master, sorry, just being honest.

G
 
generally with mastering you dont get the multi-track session but instead a stereo file. The tweaking you're doing to individual instruments wouldn't really be able to happen in a mastering session.

also I'm not the greatest fan of your initial mix at all which says to me you shouldn't be mastering. if i could point out one thing to really work on is your low mids.
 
Daniel England said:
So you're saying that I can't learn to master a track without it being perfectly mixed? Tosh. I would have thought that was what providing before and after versions was for.

I find that going through a mastering process highlights the issues. I wouldn't have noticed the strings so much unless I put it through compression etc.

The problems I mentioned are so trivial, I can't believe they even got another mention. I'm certainly not looking to fix them with mastering, I know its patch choices and expression controllers. I don't even know what you are referring to by "tracking issues". I'm assuming tracker as in a type of sequencing but I'm not using that type.

I need to be able to go through to mastering to "prove" the settings I'm using to make a reference set-up. I need to know if the room and speakers are set-up anywhere near properly as well as having a track and processes as a reference.


Daniel.
Click to expand...

yes you are right...it is tosh


you can master a shit mix


and make a shit master


dont let anyone tell you otherwise!
 
the unmastered mix sounds like a production/mix from someone who started producing/mixing music maybe 6 months ago.
a mastering engineer should have at least 10 years of professional mixing experience - so just don't think about mastering yourself for the next 10 years. learn to produce/mix. there are no shortcuts.
 
Mastering while you mix is a very bad idea anyway. They are two separate stages of production and should be treated as such. It's even better to have the luxury of having mixing and mastering performed by different engineers. I do master my own stuff (crude mastering also) but I have to step away from the project and take off my artistic hat and put on my technical hat. Mixing well is hard enough. Concentrate on that for a while because what you are doing is not mastering anyway.
 
How do you like dem apples?

I say if a new guy wants to come on a forum called "HOME" Recording and try to learn sumpin about HOME mixing and HOME mastering, so be it, humor the guy and give him a few tips that will put him farther ahead of where he is now. Sometimes pointing a new HOME recording engineer directly to all the pro stuff and skipping over all the HOME pitfalls is not the right answer. Let him learn thru experience and trial & error just like most all of us did.

As I read this thread and these replies, I think the gist of our first tip to you, OP, is this:

Remix your starting mix and get it to sound like your mastered mix but without the mastering. I think we are basically suggesting that your finished unmastered mix should already sound as good as the track that you are saying is already mastered. Do your HOME mastering as best you can, then figure out how you can get your raw mix to sound that way without any mastering. If you are applying your mastering trick to individual tracks, then figure out how to get each individual raw track to sound that way but without any mastering trick applied to it. Be warned, in some cases it may boil down to re-recording it, change it at the source, etc.

While you are at it, consider that mastering at any level, even at HOME, will need more than just a 3 band compressor. Blow some money on a consumer grade HOME mastering software like Ozone and just dink around with it. Download the mastering guide from their web site and see if you can figure out what the various components in Ozone do to the sound.

Blow another small wad of cash on BOB KATZ MASTERING GUIDE.

Just for entertainment value, make some coffee and go to youtube and search "unmastered vs mastered" and see if you get any ideas listening to some of the examples posted.
 
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