Is Mastering necessary?

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mastering a single is still relevant in this competetive biz. every one wants a share of the green...... u dont want ya release to sound wimpy or odd next to other commercial releases!!! so in this case i normally assume the other musicians' music to be part of the 'album' and master based on that!
Why would someone want to listen to something that sounded like everything else, especially when everything else sounds like crap because it's too squashed? All that does is shorten the amount of time your clone is on the listener's playlist before they tire of it.

Make music, not clones. If the music is good enough, the listener will take care of the volume themselves. If it's not, it doesn't really matter anyway.

G.
 
Why would someone want to listen to something that sounded like everything else, especially when everything else sounds like crap because it's too squashed? All that does is shorten the amount of time your clone is on the listener's playlist before they tire of it.

Make music, not clones. If the music is good enough, the listener will take care of the volume themselves. If it's not, it doesn't really matter anyway.

G.

well what if your trying to get a tune on the local radio or to have a bar owner put the track on his play list, maybe a DJ for a stage and doe is willing to play it, or you want it tossed on at a party in with the other shuffled songs. my point is, i hear what your saying but when your track is in between mastered commercial tracks, you need the volume boost or it wont fit. we all know, louder just sounds better. and the last thing we want is a weak sounding song. i'm sure most people don't want to wait by the volume knob for your song to come on, turn it up, and then back down when its done. its nice to just set it for everything and leave it.
 
i hear what your saying but when your track is in between mastered commercial tracks, you need the volume boost or it wont fit.
Which is why radio stations supply their own level of compression and volume balancing. Granted, many radio stations these days don't do as good of a job at that as they used to, but that's a whole other thread, and is a problem most prevalent in the lower-wattage stations.
we all know, louder just sounds better.
No, I don't know that at all. You take your average song (depending on genre) and smash it to levels popular today, and it sounds like crap compared to the version with more natural dynamics. And that's not just for audiophiles; your average Joe Listener may not consciously realize that it sounds like crap, but his ear and his mind will fatigue of it faster and it's lifespan on their playlist will be shortened. The mythical "15 minutes of fame" isn't that far from the truth when you smash your pride and joy to an RMS of -8dBFS.

Everybody is afraid that their music has to be loud to compete. That's baloney. It has to be GOOD to compete. If it's good, the listener won't give a crap if it's 3dB quieter on their iPod, and the DJ will be happy to adjust the playback volume. If it's not good, it doesn't matter either way, they won't listen to it no matter how loud it is.

Loudness is a big scam that churns a larger number of lukewarm artists through the playlist for a shorter period of time in an attempt to create more overall sales faster for the label, but shafts the individual artist in the process.

G.
 
The mythical "15 minutes of fame" isn't that far from the truth when you smash your pride and joy to an RMS of -8dBFS.

In this case it becomes abut 1.5 minutes of fame, which is about all I can stand. My daughter did a try out for a metal band. She brought home a backing track they recorded somewhere, to which I was going to record her vocals.

The track was about four minutes of rectangular wave form. While performed well enough, it was un unremitting assault on the ears, and what variety there was was completely obliterated by the amount of compression. Neither she nor I could persevere with getting a vocal track on it. For one, there just wasn't any room, and secondly it was such a highly unpleasant task.
 
Why would someone want to listen to something that sounded like everything else, especially when everything else sounds like crap because it's too squashed? All that does is shorten the amount of time your clone is on the listener's playlist before they tire of it.

Make music, not clones. If the music is good enough, the listener will take care of the volume themselves. If it's not, it doesn't really matter anyway.

G.

It sounds like your assuming that every ME's first instinct is to crush the mix.

I agree that if digital brick wall limiting was never invented we would all be better off (sonically). But the loudness wars have been going on since vinyl was invented and was spearheaded by motown in the late 50's early 60's and progressed from there. Only problem is now we've hit the glass ceiling and many people are aware of it. Maybe the difference in a good ME and a shitty ME is to find the one who can make great sounding master's with good tonal balance and with out distortion/clipping but still be competitively loud vs the one that clips and sounds like mush.

Sure there's a lot of flatlined stuff out there but there's also a lot very good sounding stuff out there to. I think consumers, artist, engineer's etc. are all becoming increasingly aware of the trade off of loud bad sound. It doesn't help either that the internet is the new radio and the delivery format (128 mp3) for that is very poor, but it is increasingly getting better with faster download speed which equals higher fidelity/larger bit rate/lossless audio codec. I personally believe that the engineers making shitty sounding music are just shitty engineers (there's a ton of em). The engineer's making really good sounding music are really good engineer's. Isn't that the way it's always been?

To me it's like your saying, don't ever get your stuff mastered because it will make your music sound like shite, when the truth is a lot of music whether it's a great song or not was recorded and distorted like shite before it ever gets in the door of an ME as Gecko was describing as an example in his post.
 
Everybody is afraid that their music has to be loud to compete. That's baloney. It has to be GOOD to compete. If it's good, the listener won't give a crap if it's 3dB quieter on their iPod, and the DJ will be happy to adjust the playback volume. If it's not good, it doesn't matter either way, they won't listen to it no matter how loud it is.
G.

Plus pretty much all digital playback devices have volume leveling options since even Squashed recordings don't have identical perceived loudness
 
It sounds like your assuming that every ME's first instinct is to crush the mix.

To me it's like your saying, don't ever get your stuff mastered because it will make your music sound like shite, when the truth is a lot of music whether it's a great song or not was recorded and distorted like shite before it ever gets in the door of an ME as Gecko was describing as an example in his post.

I don't think Glen's suggesting either that an ME's first instinct is to crush the mix, or that you should not get your stuff mastered because it will make your music "sound like shite".

All along Glen has extolled the value of mastering as (a) a means of applying consistency across a suite of tracks, and (b) bringing out the inherent sparkle in an already good mix.

I also think that Glen agrees that a lot of material arriving at an ME's door suffers from mixing flaws that mastering is not going to do much for.

I agree with the general thrust of your comments, but not with your interpretation of Glen's stance.
 
I don't think Glen's suggesting either that an ME's first instinct is to crush the mix, or that you should not get your stuff mastered because it will make your music "sound like shite".

All along Glen has extolled the value of mastering as (a) a means of applying consistency across a suite of tracks, and (b) bringing out the inherent sparkle in an already good mix.

I also think that Glen agrees that a lot of material arriving at an ME's door suffers from mixing flaws that mastering is not going to do much for.

I agree with the general thrust of your comments, but not with your interpretation of Glen's stance.
Thank you, Mike (or is it Mic? ;) :D), you are absolutely correct.

Waltz, if you had a playbook (you can't tell the players without a playbook! :D) for this BBS, or if you had watched the game here for a while before making quick judgements, you'd know that some of my favorite people here are folks like Massive Master and Mastering House and BBlackwood (though I think that Brad left this place a couple of years ago, I haven't seen him in a long time) some of the finest pro MEs in the business and a few of the best contributors to this BBS (amongst others), that I fully support and defend professional mastering on the appropriate projects, and that the majority of MEs that I come across loathe the Loudness Wars - as do I.

For the record, the Loudness Wars have been going on and off in different incarnations since the advent of commercial AM radio back in the early 20th century, when broadcasters found that if they pushed the average modulation of their signal as close to the legal limit of 100% as they could, their broadcasts would carry a farther range and they could potentially charge more for advertising that way. The station station engineers competed for coming up with ways of pushing the mod levels (the 1920s equivalent of today's pushing the digital RMS) without sacrificing a whole lot in the signal quality (because the quality pretty much sucked to begin with anyway).

But today that rationale just doesn't exist anymore, unless one is making a limited-fidelity recording to be broadcast only on an AM radio station. And even then, the radio station is doing all the work, you don't need to encode it in the program material.

Sure a great ME can push stuff harder than a mediocre one, but it's still going to sound worse than the un-pushed version, and with no tangible benefit to the artist or listener whatsoever. It's a losing proposition.

Can you make better money being an ME who caters to the mo' louda' mo bett'a crowd than one who occasionally can actually talk a client out of it? Yeah, howdy, that's a given. But if one's main motivation is to make money, the music business is probably the last business they should be getting into ;).

G.
 
It's all good... I have read previous post (and the playbook-history) and agree with a lot that's being said...

It just seemed like a blanket statement that was saying "don't get stuff mastered because the ME will only screw it up - or don't get stuff mastered because all you have to do is turn the volume knob up" When mastering as I'm sure everyone knows is about a lot more than that, although the loudness aspect is the issue that has been pushed to the front now a days. I hope I didn't misinterpret anyone's stance...

It's not an issue about money for me, I've made money and a living from music since I was 15 and that was a long time ago. Music is first for me.

It's easy to be cynical about the whole loudness thing but I deal with it everyday.
My goal is always to make music sound better before anything else.

All that I'm saying is mastering when done right, can greatly improve the final recorded result.
 
It just seemed like a blanket statement that was saying "don't get stuff mastered because the ME will only screw it up
WOW. I never said anything even CLOSE to that.

Christ, there are days on this board and there are *days*, I just came here this morning directly from a thread where I'm getting broadsided by a guy (he's a friend, too) who is trying to tell me that one should never need mastering whatsoever except for maybe a volume adjustment and is blasting me for suggesting that mastering is more than just volume and is often a desired, if not required stage. And now I come here and get slammed with almost exactly the opposite charge.

I think I'm going back to bed :rolleyes:

G.
 
Sorry about that Glen

I didn't mean to make your brain itch today. That was never my intent.
I saw the other thread to and thought it was a bit of a contradiction...my bad.
...Don't mean to start off on the wrong foot...
 
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Glenn, Tom.


Tom, Glenn.


(John Glenn)
john-glenn.jpg
 
I'm getting broadsided by a guy (he's a friend, too) who is trying to tell me that one should never need mastering whatsoever except for maybe a volume adjustment and is blasting me for suggesting that mastering is more than just volume and is often a desired, if not required stage.

Broadsided???? Is that what you call it when someone doesn't completely agree with everything you say??? That's pretty childish.

Either you're having trouble reading today, or you're just full of shit. I never even suggested what you're accusing me of, and I repeatedly said that wasn't what I was implying. You're just plain being dishonest now.
 
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AH,HA! I finally found a post that may answer my question. How does one compile a CD (album) of songs so that there is consistency of volume levels and uniformity,(in other words,so that all the songs are balanced and sound like they belong together). I have recently installed CD Architect in my computer but have not yet mastered it's uses. I have some experience with the Alesis Masterlink. I have noticed in the HELP part of CD Architect, there are pointers on this subject. My brother and I have just completed songs for an album that may be our last,( I'm 68 and he is 70 years old). kind of unusual I know but we had a band years ago and wanted to leave something for our kids and grand kids. I've have a basement studio with an Alesis HD24, Mackie 24/8 board, etc. and I have some experience in using all of the above. I am by no means a polished pro but I am pretty pleased with my recording and mastering (I use The term hesitantly) results. MY daughters say my recordings sound as good as anything on the radio but, listening to the radio lately I won't let that swell my head! I would appreciate any advice given on this subject. Terry Wetzel
 
If you were just doing one instrument, like solo piano, or solo acoustic guitar, or a solo digital piano, would mastering be necessary?
 
Yes, it would probably be a good idea to be masterful at your instrument.
 
Some of the most challenging projects I get in here are the most simplistic - A'capella groups, solo piano, flamenco guitar, etc.
 
Mastering isn't a commodity. However, I don't know many mixing engineers who can balance both mindsets. Find a mastering engineer who understands your music and give him time to comment on 2nd-to-final mixes.
 
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