Is it possible for indie artists to survive making music?

stringbender05 said:
Whos buying Bieber's new album?
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Teenagers (and people who were teenagers when he first came out)
Whos buying Periphory's new album?
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College-age music nerds.

Who's marketing your garbage man? Is it no one? 'cause that'll be why no one has heard his music.
Dolly Parton or maybe Matteo said:
How do you make a million dollars in music? Start with two million dollars.
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stringbender05 said:
My garbage man is the best guitar player ever. But, you guys are right. It's time I bit the bullet and faced reality. People are gonna reward the rappers and the chicks with pop rock bands over me because they like easy, predictable garbage. If I have the choice between joining an underground deathcore band playing to groups of 10-20 or I play classic rock cover band which has been done to death il choose.... selling every instrument I own to go work at Mcdonalds. And just accepting the death of music. Whos buying Bieber's new album? Whos buying Periphory's new album? Because I see no difference in quality between the two and thats the biggest problem with the music business today.
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Melodrama much? The death of music? In it's essentials, music hasn't changed in the last 35,000 years, since cave men sat around a fire chanting and banging on shit. It will never die. You can make any kind of music that pleases you, and find someone making any kind of music you care to hear. For the diversity of styles and genres that you can access just for the asking, I doubt there has been a time in human history that rivals the present. And the variety of shit to bang on while you chant has never been greater. This is it, the Golden Age.

What you can't do is expect masses of other people to listen while you chant and bang, and pay for the privilege. Why should they? People will listen to what they want, just like you will. If they prefer rappers and Justin Bieber to your music, that just shows they are morons with bovine tastes? Keep telling yourself that. There's a reason why few people listen to underground deathcore, and it ain't because there is some unique artistic merit to that genre that's above the masses. It's because few people like fucking deathcore. But it's there for you if do like it. And if you want to make that kind of music, you don't need anybody's permission to do it.
 
Know one (1) indie Christian artist from Florida that I started following about 5 years ago, first as just a friend on FB, then following his band page. He started out with (and still has) lots of cash to throw at his music. His stuff is professionally recorded and produced. He has a huge voice, popular sounding music, good looking, charismatic... all the bells and whistles. He has posted all three of his releases up on NoiseTrade for giveaway....
But he does play lots of venues 1000-5000 seat places all over the world. Making a decent living (doesn't much mention how much).
Point is, it's just like has been said. In 20 years, he'll likely be working a 9-5 (if he's lucky) reliving the "glory days". Not that I'm trying to put out his fire...I really hope he makes it huge. But it's just not likely.

No one says you can't. Everyone who sees reality plainly will tell you it's REALLY not apt to happen.
Play music because you love it. Record your own music if you love recording. Write music to impress yourself. IF (big if) you actually make it, you'll still love it. If you're doing music stuff to make money and not because you love it, you're going to be disappointed in a load of different ways. Band called Needtobreathe in popular Christian music followed that path and they've made a huge following. They wrote what they wanted to play, played it because they loved it, and let people like it if they wanted to...and it worked.
 
Farview said:
You couldn't possibly be so naive as to think that popularity is a function of quality.
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I don't really think objective quality standards even exist in music. It's all in the mind of the listener. Justin Beiber does certain things well and other things not so well. Same with Periphery, Opeth, Adele, The Pixies, Electric Wizard, Janis Joplin, Sarah McLaughlin and everyone from Stravinsky and Dvorak to the most shambly self-produced indie pop. Listeners who find the presence of certain qualities more important than others will gravitate toward artists who accentuate those qualities. The idea that the music you like is somehow "better" than other styles is myopic and just reveals that you've never really examined honestly why you like what you do.

Popularity begets more popularity, and the first step to becoming popular is to have an extremely influential someone lobby for you.. like some very well-known celebrity, or say being mentioned in Pitchfork or something. Music is a social activity and most listeners want to feel there's some community out there supporting their taste, whatever that may be. More people have bought their first Bad Brains CD, not because they were a potent band with well-crafted songs, but because the hot chick from 3rd period Algebra with purple hair likes them, but she got into them because some other cooler guy or girl liked them and if you follow that chain all the way up, there's an influential critic somewhere that opened that first door for them.. that and of course the hard work of writing great songs, playing out, putting yourself on the map and hoping that someone "important" notices.
 
The way to not get popular, and to stigmatize your music in the public eye forever, is to promote it yourself and shove it in people's faces over and over again. Great bands have made this mistake and it doomed them. No one wants to feel coerced into liking anything, and the more you try to coerce them, the more they'll most likely never give you a shot. Even if you're awesome.
 
fat_fleet said:
I don't really think objective quality standards even exist in music. It's all in the mind of the listener. Justin Beiber does certain things well and other things not so well. Same with Periphery, Opeth, Adele, The Pixies, Electric Wizard, Janis Joplin, Sarah McLaughlin and everyone from Stravinsky and Dvorak to the most shambly self-produced indie pop. Listeners who find the presence of certain qualities more important than others will gravitate toward artists who accentuate those qualities.
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I have to agree.
 
Im still trying to figure out social media. In a way I could argue that I just became famous on this forum. I generared cheap heat by saying some things that defy what we consider normal. I got a 5 star thread. Why should people even give a fuck about my music? They don't need a reason to give a fuck and they don't have to listen. Billy Corgan did an interview that mentioned today you need to beg people for attention if you expect them to listen. Im not begging, im not forcing, but I hate the current state of music and I would like to challenge it.

How many of you guys are on youtube? Do you have music channels? If you cater to a small loyal fanbase that is one thing. If you have everybody listening even if they don't like you, it's exposure regardless of the outcome. When you load up youtube the machine isn't promoting any good bands at all. Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, Rihanna, Eminem, Drake always make the headlines. Those who make theheadlines get the most views. Those who get the most views don't have the most talent. So the system is all fucked up and something is off here. I would like to challenge that.

Pewdiepie wooooooooaaaahah ahahahaa waaaaaaaaah it's pewdiepie 50 million views, exotic vacations, zero talent. Just some idiot talking a bunch of shit in front of a camera. Let's challenge the system. Im not going to make a mockery out of myself to get attention. If I can be somewhat of a dick head in my rants it makes people talk. We learned that from this thread. If people talk about me I could be a shitty musician and still get rewarded. I wanna be the best musician and have them talk. Maybe il start out ranting about the state of music and shit all over everything. Make people angry, then hit them with quality. Why not? If the headliners are shitty and they are making us mad I might as well make people mad with quality.
 
A lot of talk, but we still haven't heard any music.

Are you just trying to engage us in dialog?

So far this thread seems pointless.. to me anyway.
 
fat_fleet said:
Popularity begets more popularity, and the first step to becoming popular is to have an extremely influential someone lobby for you.. like some very well-known celebrity, or say being mentioned in Pitchfork or something. Music is a social activity and most listeners want to feel there's some community out there supporting their taste, whatever that may be. More people have bought their first Bad Brains CD, not because they were a potent band with well-crafted songs, but because the hot chick from 3rd period Algebra with purple hair likes them, but she got into them because some other cooler guy or girl liked them and if you follow that chain all the way up, there's an influential critic somewhere that opened that first door for them.. that and of course the hard work of writing great songs, playing out, putting yourself on the map and hoping that someone "important" notices.
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Yeah, I think this is definitely true. A review, recommendation or airplay somewhere has some kind of legitimising effect I think. It's the catalyst that transforms you from worthless schmoe bugging everyone with your crappy efforts to someone making something credible. Even more so now, given that 60 odd years of popular music and increasing affortdability of home recording has meant there's just so much music out there. People like having their own 'secret' bands, but even that usually still needs to have been pre-validated on some level somewhere by some kind of arbiter of cool.

Thinking about one of my old favourites, Pavement – the EPs they put out before the first album are full of sloppy lo-fi jams that nobody would give the time of day to if they were to emerge for the first time now and without some kind of high profile cheerleader.

Whoever posted earlier on here, that hardly anyone really gives a shit about your music, so just have fun and see it as the liberating force to just write/record whatever the hell you want was spot on. It might even have been you again Fleet?
 
robgreen said:
Whoever posted earlier on here, that hardly anyone really gives a shit about your music, so just have fun and see it as the liberating force to just write/record whatever the hell you want was spot on. It might even have been you again Fleet?
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Yeah, I'm pretty much like a broken record with that sentiment, but only because it's something no one seems to want to hear. I don't get it myself.. we're in an age where it's more possible than ever for the average joe to do wackadoodle shit and indulge their wildest fantasy of sound, and yet all anyone wants to do is blend in. Sound like "the pros", play like "the pros", sit around in their comfy socks and gawk at the gear and setups of these millionaires, so they might someday emulate them. I suspect they're afraid of being passive-agressively ignored. I take being passive-aggressively ignored as a sign of creative success. :D
 
I blame the internet for instilling the value that what you have to say can't be right unless it can be verified on Google that others have said/thought the same thing.
 
stringbender05 said:
Im still trying to figure out social media. In a way I could argue that I just became famous on this forum. I generared cheap heat by saying some things that defy what we consider normal. I got a 5 star thread. Why should people even give a fuck about my music? They don't need a reason to give a fuck and they don't have to listen. Billy Corgan did an interview that mentioned today you need to beg people for attention if you expect them to listen. Im not begging, im not forcing, but I hate the current state of music and I would like to challenge it.

How many of you guys are on youtube? Do you have music channels? If you cater to a small loyal fanbase that is one thing. If you have everybody listening even if they don't like you, it's exposure regardless of the outcome. When you load up youtube the machine isn't promoting any good bands at all. Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, Rihanna, Eminem, Drake always make the headlines. Those who make theheadlines get the most views. Those who get the most views don't have the most talent. So the system is all fucked up and something is off here. I would like to challenge that.

Pewdiepie wooooooooaaaahah ahahahaa waaaaaaaaah it's pewdiepie 50 million views, exotic vacations, zero talent. Just some idiot talking a bunch of shit in front of a camera. Let's challenge the system. Im not going to make a mockery out of myself to get attention. If I can be somewhat of a dick head in my rants it makes people talk. We learned that from this thread. If people talk about me I could be a shitty musician and still get rewarded. I wanna be the best musician and have them talk. Maybe il start out ranting about the state of music and shit all over everything. Make people angry, then hit them with quality. Why not? If the headliners are shitty and they are making us mad I might as well make people mad with quality.
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"Cheap heat"?? You started a big back-and-forth at a little forum populated by other musicians. Zero visibility elsewhere. "5 stars"? This ain't no hotel review site.
 
The problem is as it's always been. Popular music...meaning what's played on the radio...is driven by 11-14 year old kids. It's the demographic that has the most free time and has a budding interest in music. Therefore, boy bands and "good girls who turn bad" are usually popular for the fems, and hard rock/punk/metal with angst lyrics or sex/race (meaning bed and car, not gender and nationality) oriented lyrics are popular with the boys...been that way since the 50s and 60s. Some anti government makes it at times. Very few other things stir the pot.
 
mjbphotos said:
"5 stars"? This ain't no hotel review site.
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"Musicians spent the whole night bickering loudly next door. Continental breakfast was cold. Didn't get world famous. 5/5 stars! Will definitely stay at hotel Homerecording.com next time I'm in town!"
 
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