Is It Perfect Yet ??

  • Thread starter Thread starter smellyfuzz
  • Start date Start date
Greatly expressed, Fab!!

I completely agree with you! Could it be because the two of us have the same avatar? ;)
 
Of course! Poor old Charlie - such a wonderful metaphor for an optimistic bumbler like me!

Fab
 
CrimsonWarlock said:
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"You have to be realistic. If you have a small home recording studio, then understand the best you'll ever be able to produce is a class B demo."
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I don't agree here. I recorded great stuff in the past with a Tascam 488 and an Atari running Cubase. The tracks, although put to audio-cassette several years ago, are still sounding way above demo-quality and just a nudge below what's available commercially.

These days we "only" have that computer in our basement, but it's running (software) recording setups that the Pro-engineers where dreaming of 20-30 years ago. The only thing needed to create completely awesome tracks in your "basement" is persistence and a little spark of talent maybe. If your recording sounds not good enough, you didn't work hard enough to get it where you wanted it.

Peter.
Click to expand...

Well,

I admire your desire to make a great recording, but you're not really being realistic. It's easy to say that if it's not a great sounding recording that you didn't try hard enough.
Yes, if your home studio has been built with hard wood floors, has been acoustically treated by an expert and you have top of the line digital AND analog gear (Neve board, 24 track studer, Bellari tube compressors, etc) then yes, you can produce a great "home" recording. Most people who are home recording enthusiasts might have gear that we were crying for 20 years ago (remember when dynamic automation first came out? Remember when we used to have to cut and splice tape manually?) BUT---and this is a big BUT--- it doesn't do any good if you don't have a pristine listening enviroment, experience to engineer/produce , and LOTS of experience in making recordings sound musical. Hence, in your home studio, it pays to be more realistic and record a master piece that moves you both emotionally and musically first. We strive for perfection, but at some point you have to let it go. By the way, "way above demo quality, just below what's commercially available" Is a class B demo.
If you have a demo you would like to send to me that you think is as good as anything that Warner Brothers or Geffen Records is distributing, lay it on me. Otherwise, you might want to re-think your position on the subject.......
 
Wayne,

Of course there is something to say for your point of view, but there are so many famous tracks where the vocals where recorded in the toilet because it just "did fit the atmosphere" of the track, or guitars that where recorded by direct-in instead of thousand dollar mics. Nowadays we have 96/24, HD-recording, sample accurate editing, etc. in our home-studio's. We have tons of great professional studio-gear costing a few hundred quid because it's software..... and we have almost infinite time to work on our tracks.

I'm not a pro-producer, but instead I can throw 20 hours (or whatever) at mixing a track because it's MY OWN STUDIO...

Any idea how much of that music that's distributed by the big labels nowadays is completely produced in project studio's ??!!

Ah.... and YES, talent has a lot to do with it :D

I don't have to rethink my point of view, I formed it over the last 20 years while recording in my own home-studio and seeing us getting more and more great recording equipment for lower and lower prices.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Peter.
 
CrimsonWarlock said:
Wayne,

Of course there is something to say for your point of view, but there are so many famous tracks where the vocals where recorded in the toilet because it just "did fit the atmosphere" of the track, or guitars that where recorded by direct-in instead of thousand dollar mics. Nowadays we have 96/24, HD-recording, sample accurate editing, etc. in our home-studio's. We have tons of great professional studio-gear costing a few hundred quid because it's software..... and we have almost infinite time to work on our tracks.

I'm not a pro-producer, but instead I can throw 20 hours (or whatever) at mixing a track because it's MY OWN STUDIO...

Any idea how much of that music that's distributed by the big labels nowadays is completely produced in project studio's ??!!

Ah.... and YES, talent has a lot to do with it :D

I don't have to rethink my point of view, I formed it over the last 20 years while recording in my own home-studio and seeing us getting more and more great recording equipment for lower and lower prices.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Peter.
Click to expand...

Peter,
Thanks for the healthy rebuttal. I know John Bonham used to record his drums in the halls of a house and set the mic back on the bass drum to get that HUGE kick sound, so I agree with the "if it sounds good, do it" theory.
Many small studios are doing a great job of capturing overdubs, post production work and (given the right environment) mixing sessions. It helps to offset the cost of a recording project and it's a win-win situation for all parties concerned. It's making many larger facilities think twice about what the future holds for audio production.
Certainly the gear today is far superior to anything the Beattles ever came close to having. And they were in a position to have the best.
But the bottom line is: is todays gear being used in a musical manner? It's hard to make a digital recording sound warm if you have little or no experience with the analog realm. I'm sure we would agree that 2" tape does a great job of bringing out transient properties via tape saturation that digital manufacturers are still working towards. Last time I checked, I think a used Studer 24 track was going for about $50,000 (less the technician to calibrate and maintain the unit).
Are people capable of producing great sounding recordings in their basement? Sure.
Does that same recording carry over into a myriad of listening environments? Maybe, but...
You still need the "fine wine" treatment of a true mastering engineer to bring out the best in the recording. I doubt that many home recording enthusiasts posses the skills necessary to do it.
If you do, then kudos.....you'd be the first I've ever known.

So we'll continue to agree to disagree.

Nice philosophical discussion.

Peace,

Wayne
 
A flaw in a song is a flaw to the listener and creater if it only happens once during the song. Repeated flaws are intentional
and acceptable. So if your going to have flaws have many.
 
Wayne Bliss said:

You still need the "fine wine" treatment of a true mastering engineer to bring out the best in the recording. I doubt that many home recording enthusiasts posses the skills necessary to do it.
If you do, then kudos.....you'd be the first I've ever known.
Click to expand...

Damn Wayne ...... Have to agree with you on that one :D

I will never measure myself to a Pro (mastering) engineer. Those guys indeed can do things we can not in our project studios. But the gap is closing as digital (software) equipment is getting better and better (and affordable). The most important thing a Pro engineer has today is loads of experience. So again, I wont compare myself to a Pro engineer, but I'm doing "my thing" for more then twenty years now and hell, if I didn't learn "something" over that period I would have stopped doing it a long time ago.

But I do like your perspective, as it's valid for the majority of young musicians that are thinking that all those new toys are making them instantly sounding great. It's hard work all the way ;)

Peter.
 
Hey Peter,

I do see a time when we will have the affordabilty to master our recordings quite well. Perhaps one day, someone will come along and give us the tools and simple instructions to master a damn good recording. Something like "Mastering for Windows" (remember when IBM's were only 64k with no operating system? Everything was code?) The tools are already here. I get the feeling that we're inching closer and closer...
I'm glad for both of us that we were able to see this amazing transformation from all expensive, bulky analog gear to smaller, more efficient gear (analog, digital and hybrid) that is accessible to all.
I also agree with you on younger musicians relying on the recording gear to create a great recording when in fact we both know it takes years of practice and dedication.

So I guess we'll agree to.......agree!

Peace,

~Wayne
 
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