Is It Perfect Yet ??

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smellyfuzz

smellyfuzz

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TAPE IS UNFORGIVING!

Said our engineer, the first time I ever recorded in an semi-pro studio,
the band, engineer & I were discussing weather or not to re-track a bass line
or something due to a mistake.

Recently, with my own homer studio, I found myself in constant turmoil.

At what point do you let something go ?

Do we re-track it until perfection is achieved ?

Aren't we all flawed humans ?

Is perfection possible or just perception ?

Is music in the big leagues really recorded perfect or do we
all not hear mistakes due to genius recording techniques ?


All comments welcome !


Sean
 
I think some mistakes are obvious to everyone, and others are only obvious to the composer/performer. The first kind should really be fixed. The second kind can go both ways--sometimes it's little imperfections that give something 'character'. It's a tough call.
 
Yo Odorous of fuzz:

Just add more reverb and nobody will hear the flaw.

Green Hornet
 
You be the judge

That's a hard call, especially if the performer is also the writer/arranger.

What does it sound like in the mix? Is it an obvious "flaw," or just a bit rough around the edges? And what kind of music are you doing, anyway? Different styles allow varying degrees of wiggle room regarding perfection. In blues, for example, you might get away with a performance that was somewhat less than tight by calling it ..."loose."

Consider the "passion" factor: How much passion is in the performance? Does it still move you even with a wart or two?

How much do you value "perfection?" It is certainly possible to re-do and re-do until you get a "perfect" take, but at what cost? You may end up sucking all the life out of a part, which in turn may end up having an overall diluting effect on the track.

Do all you can to save your original takes, and if you must, try a few additional takes on different tracks. That way, you can compare them all and use the one that has the best combination of fire and precision. Always keep that first one, though.

Most important advice: Don't forget to have fun! That's what this is all about.

Bruce in Korea
 
Generally rythm and pitch mistakes are unforgiveable. They will just scream amatuer to anybody in the know and for the general public they will just interpret it as a sucky song.

Most of the other mistakes only you will notice and if the listener does they might think it's jazz ;)
 
Most of the other mistakes only you will notice and if the listener does they might think it's jazz
Click to expand...

Ouch, I know some people who would kill you for such a remark:cool:


I think regarding the mistake part....unless you're a superpro you'll never get the perfect tracking. Rerecording and overdubbing can help you to get the most out of your performance, but the're will be a point that you have to say, allright this is it. Than you have reached your boundaries. Only thing you can do from there is practice and get more experience to expand your boundaries. I believe they call it something like learning?
 
When I record a bassline, the first usually truely sucks because I wasn't really into the part at that point. The second and third are better with here and there a small rattle or offset in timing.

I now tend to leave it then as it is because the 15th attempt doesn't sound as spontanious and fresh as that second or third. Minor flaws often tend to get a charm of their own.
I've never been a perfectionist. I try to be as good on my instrument as I can but I strongly believe that once it's good enough, I shouldn't waste any more time one it.

And hey, we're talking music here, not maths. When it comes to things like timing, we don't get extra points for beating the metronome.
 
DOWNSIDE :

Only thing you can do from there is practice and get more experience to expand your boundaries. I believe they call it something like learning?
Click to expand...

I still ran into the problem of mistakes even after we rehearsed a song to death.
Once we went into the studio, evolution took over and mistakes & discrepancies
took over.



CHRISTIAAN:

And hey, we're talking music here, not maths. When it comes to things like timing, we don't get extra points for beating the metronome.
Click to expand...


YES BUT, on pro recordings, it DOES sound perfect !


BY THE WAY, the guys in my band are very experienced talented musicians.

Still mistakes, of course, happen.


Sean
 
So guess why these superpro's take months to record their cd. Deff Leppard never finished an album within two years or so. It better be perfect by then.
 
Hmmm, it does put things in a certain perspective.
If they need so much time to get their recordings perfect, superpro's aren't necessarily better musicians than people like.... ME?

Then what do they have what I don't? Is it the haircut? :) :)
 
the comparison between pro recordings (sounds perfect) and what you cook up in your basement (not perfect) isn't really a fair one - Def Leppard prolly had many thousands of pounds worth of studio time, equipment, sound engineers, mastering people, you name it. In your basement, you have a pc, a mixer and you.......

That said, tho, really obvious mistakes should be sorted. Like timing, pitch, etc. Other stuff maybe shouldn't - for example, the best know recording of 'Little Wing' was actually a first take, with mics maxing out and all sorts; but it had more passion to it than subsequent versions, so they went with it.
 
Christiaan :

If they need so much time to get their recordings perfect, superpro's aren't necessarily better musicians than people like.... ME?
Click to expand...

I would agree with that !!


TOMMYP:

the comparison between pro recordings (sounds perfect) and what you cook up in your basement (not perfect) isn't really a fair one - Def Leppard prolly had many thousands of pounds worth of studio time
Click to expand...

This comment is moving to an old debate on this web-site.

I'm not really even considering "sound quality", well, not completely.

More so about nuisances.

I assume that studio time, is not an issue for homers for they own their
own equipment.
 
"I think regarding the mistake part....unless you're a superpro you'll never get the perfect tracking. Rerecording and overdubbing can help you to get the most out of your performance, but the're will be a point that you have to say, allright this is it.
Than you have reached your boundaries. Only thing you can do from there is practice and get more experience to expand your boundaries. I believe they call it something like learning?"

"I still ran into the problem of mistakes even after we rehearsed a song to death.
Once we went into the studio, evolution took over and mistakes & discrepancies took over."

"How much do you value "perfection?" It is certainly possible to re-do and re-do until you get a "perfect" take, but at what cost? You may end up sucking all the life out of a part, which in turn may end up having an overall diluting effect on the track."

To qoute some local wisdom:D , there are our three main factors. Then we must find (and admit to) our own balance of them.
wayne
 
Here is my approach to the whole perfection conundrum. Assuming the instruments are in tune, I usually place differing degrees of pressure to make a perfect take based on what the instrument is, and where it lies in the structure of the song.

I record the rhythm guitars after the drums, but before everything else. And since my music is rock/metal, those guitars have to be damn near as perfect as possible. However, I have learned that the mind can play tricks on you, especially when you get so wrapped up in the track that you think you hear mistakes when there are none. I find that unless I screw up something critical, or totally botch the passage, I'll play the track straight through, and then determine how good the track was upon playback. I'm always amazed at the number of times I'll be playing the track, and I think I hear a mistake, but by the time I finish I forget where the mistake happened. If I play it back and the mistake didn't show up on that pass, then the take is a good one (provided I didn't screw up somewhere else).

Every other instrument has varying degrees of required perfection. Usually the bass guitar can miss a note or two because it tends to get buried under the kick or guitars. Although vocals have to be dead on pitch wise, I will allow slight variations against the beat, because my vocals typically don't fall smack in line with the rhythm section. Back vocals have it the easiest: They don't have to be dead on, and sometimes you can drop out of tune a bit..

I figure, as long as I don't catch these things upon the initial playback, then they will be forgotten as soon as I move on. So far I haven't regretted a single take that I deemed final with this approach.

Cy
 
You are missing the point!

You have to be realistic. If you have a small home recording studio, then understand the best you'll ever be able to produce is a class B demo. Albeit a damn good class B demo, but a class B demo none the less. Ask yourself the following questions:

1) What is the scope of the project?
*are you trying to record some original material that
moves you on some sort of aesthetic level?
*are you trying to get someone interested in your project?
2) How much time and money do you have to spend on the
project?
* is this a low budget, finish-the-overdubs-on-a-weekend
kind of project?
*will you take the tracks to a reputable studio and pay
to have the project mixed and mastered?
3) How well trained are the musicians?
* do they gig for a living or are they "weekend warriors"?

The music industry does a great inservice to musicians by creating the illusion that music has to be "perfect". If you dig the tracks, if you had fun being creative, and are inspired to create more, then MOVE ON!

(ps- jazz music is the spontaneous creation of music in the musical moment. If you can't appreciate how difficult it is to become a seasoned jazz musician, then SHUT UP! - this comment is directed to the respondee who said "most of the other mistakes only you wll notice and if the listener does they might think it's jazz..")
 
There are a lot of times when I make a mistake that ends up being the part that I dig most of the tune. Obviously that's not always true, but it has taught me that mistakes are not always "bad".

Listen to your music. If the mistake "fits" in the part, leave it in! If not, take it away!
 
I once saw a live video from Chick Corea. He starts to play a song really intense, and after 20 seconds he stops, looks around and says. Hey, I got totally the wrong sound. He starts pushing buttons till he finds the right sound, and starts all over again.

Great !
 
I usually retrack the obvious mistakes and try to remain oblivious to the "other factors" (ie muting a string that should have rung out longer or whatever) that may fuck up my track. When I finish a mix, I'll sit and listen - if it moves me, that's cool. If it's still moving me after 10-20 listens, it's a done deal.
 
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"You have to be realistic. If you have a small home recording studio, then understand the best you'll ever be able to produce is a class B demo."
----------

I don't agree here. I recorded great stuff in the past with a Tascam 488 and an Atari running Cubase. The tracks, although put to audio-cassette several years ago, are still sounding way above demo-quality and just a nudge below what's available commercially.

These days we "only" have that computer in our basement, but it's running (software) recording setups that the Pro-engineers where dreaming of 20-30 years ago. The only thing needed to create completely awesome tracks in your "basement" is persistence and a little spark of talent maybe. If your recording sounds not good enough, you didn't work hard enough to get it where you wanted it.

Peter.
 
Guys, this is a great thread!

There are so many variables here.... talent, quality of the gear, talent, goal of the recording, talent...

Did I mention talent?

This is coming from someone very limited in that department. Yes, I get frustrated with my tracks -- ESPECIALLY vocal tracks, where I know that I'll never get truly pro results.

But....

Let's think for a minute. Are ANY Rolling Stones songs truly perfect? Didn't the Beatles rip off one of the greatest songs in history, Twist and Shout, in a SINGLE take, no overdubs, 'cause John's voice was going?

Two words sum up my point: Bob Dylan.

None of these luminaries cut PERFECT tracks - perfect in that clinical, every note is precisely on pitch, every strum perfectly matches the hi-hat, every bass note reflects the kick sort of way.

But these folks had talent. Incredible talent. SOMETHING about the song - the brilliant lyrics, passionate vocals, screaming guitar - cut through and burned them into our collective memory.

All of which to say - yes, nail every track as well as you can. Go back and fix what bothers you. But don't forget the passion.


Fab
 
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