Is it our duty as songwriters to not talk about ''people'' in our songs?

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assman

assman

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This is a rant so if anyone is interested in helping me figure my life out, please share your thoughts!!!

I make music that would be labeled as ''bad energy'' music (I would describe it as soft music, with punk lyrics, lyrics that a punk would write, and no not that type of punk... the one who's an asshole, i don't consider myself to be an asshole, but people perceive me that way i think).

It is labeled that way mainly because I touch on subjects that are in rapport with troubles i have had in my life, in a very honest way, some might say it could be cringy and just a pessimistic outlook on people's behaviors (woah heavy shit man).

I am very influenced by Robert Wyatt's (soft machine) writings. I try to put lots of irony in my lyrics, to a point where people don't understand the message of the song. And at the end of the day, it just sort of sounds mean...

So my question is. should we not talk about stuff that pisses us off about EVERYBODY (not friends in particular, but everybody).
Also, double question, if we didn't have those types of song, wouldn't we be just left with a bitter taste of TOXIC positivity?
Is it too much?

thanks u. all comments are appreciated.

edit: damn I meant to post this in songwriting, not vocal technique.
double edit: (also i do know that robert's writings were mostly positive, they just sounded vulnerable sometimes, that's what I'm aiming for).
 
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Thread moved to Songwriting.

There is no obstacle to you writing about things that bother you, including stuff that friends and acquaintances do. However, public humiliation is never a good strategy, so any critical songwriting should be crafted in a way that disguises the object of your disapproval.

At a broader level, if you write this music for yourself as a form of catharsis, that's fine. But I wonder how an anticipated wider audience might respond to it.
 
assman said:
should we not talk about stuff that pisses us off about EVERYBODY (not friends in particular, but everybody).
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One should write about whatever one feels. Some of the best songs have lyrics that arise from being pissed off. If John Lennon wasn't pissed off, we'd never have had "I am the walrus." If George Harrison wasn't pissed off, we'd never have had "Only a Northern song," "Think for yourself," "Taxman" or "Piggies." If Angie Stone wasn't pissed off, we'd never have had many of the great songs on the "Black Diamond" album, or the song "Pissed off." If John Lydon wasn't pissed off, we'd never have had most of the Sex Pistols output, particularly a song like EMI. Obviously, it was a dig at the record label, but it actually stood for "every mistake imaginable."
In fact, a huge percentage of songs, since the dawn of time, have stemmed from someone being pissed off.
assman said:
I touch on subjects that are in rapport with troubles i have had in my life, in a very honest way, some might say it could be cringy and just a pessimistic outlook on people's behaviors
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I've always done that. I touch on loads of other things too, but hassles and the ways others may have pissed me off {or me, them} have turned up in many of my songs. As long as the music and the overall song is good, the lyric won't always come across as angry. I sometimes coat them in humour.
gecko zzed said:
However, public humiliation is never a good strategy, so any critical songwriting should be crafted in a way that disguises the object of your disapproval
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I agree. I don't name names. I might make a cryptic joke of someone's name or not even mention any name. Many a time, a line or verse here or there will be filled with bile.....but only I'd know it. No one on earth would ever be able to guess who this was about:

1.Who dared repeat the sacred scrolls ?
Tomorrow who’ll be back the day after next ?
Stand still stranger, did you not know ?
Stand still stranger, could you not guess ?
“Not I” said the chicken,
“Not I” wrote the pen,
“Not I” walked the footstep,
“Not I”

2.Who will weep for Adonai ?
Would anyone if he declared he were gay ?
Who’ll lift his corpse down from the tree ?
Who’ll break the news to his black sheep family ?
“Not I” neighed the donkey,
“Not I” drove the car,
“Not I” shot the gunfire,
“Not I”

3.Who will be the one to face
Calling time & space “Jack, 10, King, Queen & Ace” ?
Both setting and quelling the pace,
A halt to the race of these sunset games…
“Not I” roared the lion,
“Not I” crashed the doors,
“Not I” swooped the seagull,
“Not I”

4.As we were now merely dust,
Punish me if you will. Punish me if you must
Dust in our visions and thoughts,
Dust in our actions and dust in your courts……


And even if someone did guess, they'd be hard pushed to know what I was writing about !
I'll often disguise a rant.
gecko zzed said:
At a broader level, if you write this music for yourself as a form of catharsis, that's fine. But I wonder how an anticipated wider audience might respond to it.
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I have a friend who writes really good songs. They carry a lot of scope for arranging, and her melodies are good. But virtually all her lyrics are about doomed relationships or some less than chivalrous guy that has pissed her off in a relationship or won't engage in one. When she plays me a song, I often laugh and say something to the effect that she's off again ! We have a good chuckle about it. Thing is, the songs are good. She could probably get away with an album of those songs. But 10 ?
 
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Thank you for the move!

And yes you pretty much nailed what I was thinking. I still have a few ramblings (because I want to make sure I don't hurt someone when releasing this album! and i trust you guys on this forum for this type of stuff, even though I shouldn't, because it's a forum, duh:facepalm:)

Let's take for example an artist, a man, who gets cheated on by his ex girlfriend and becomes angry and writes all sorts of ironic songs about it, with a HINT of hatred, because that's how he feels, he hates the fact that they could never be together! because he really loved her and now he can't trust her anymore! it's a manic feeling. It's catharsis, like you say. Let's say the hint of hatred would be in a line that says "Nothing you do makes me love you". It's a super harsh line; is it public humiliation?

I was listening to a song by Daevid Allen (Daevid Allen & Euterpe "Have You Seen My Friend?"), it has some of the most interesting paring of lyrics and melodies i've heard/seen in a while, it sort of sounds crazy, groovy!

''Have you seen my friend
She's gone round the bend
and I'm wonderin if she's OK
Very strange

She's a kind of witch
She can be a bitch
But I'm wondering if she's OK
Very strange

She's left her family
her body and her mind
I'm finding her footprints
are pretty hard to find
I hope you don't think I'm unkind
She reminds me of you

Have you seen my friend
She's gone round the bend
and I'm wonderin if she's OK
Very strange

She's left her family
her body and her mind
I'm finding her footprints
are pretty hard to find
I hope you don't think I'm unkind
She reminds me of you''


And yeah I know, this is very Canterbury nerd of me, but it has some of the most interesting pairing of words/melodies that i've ever heard. He straight out says in the song ''she can be a bitch'', how is that okay? And I know, Daevid was sort of an eccentric character (Kevin Ayers in ''Why Are We Sleeping?'' even says the line ''While Daevid is cursing, the customers scream''), sort of shows you how provocateur he might have been.

I was thinking of this because I have an album that I can't seem to publish because I feel bad that it's going to hurt "that" person. I feel bad because I have 50 copies of that album, on CASSETTE!

anyways don't feel obligated to reply, if anyone wants to chime in on their thoughts of this, or just wants to talk about their music/songwriting, or just anything. i don't mind and am open for discussion. (yes i am a 23 year old guy living at his parent's place, hoarding a bunch of four-tracks and r2r's).
 
Grim, not going to lie, that post calmed me down. I can't seem to relax lately.
I just feel like some people lack COMMON SENSE. (which is sort a term that comes from the British people, right? I am from Quebec, and have some deep irish roots.. maybe the irish anger transcends through genetics? could that even be a possibility??) The common sense that I'm talking about is this: younger people (talk bout my gen) have no more appreciation for art/music that is sort of ironic, but truly ironic! and i'm talking about old irony! the one that bites a little. not the weird meme ironic shit you see everywhere on social media. I mean actual intelligent writing, that is sometimes ironic. All the examples that you named, they are all pretty much british! Is that like some sort of national feeling for them? To say stuff in a way that is ironic, humorous. This might sound weird, but I am happy to hear when someone shares their discontentment about a certain thing, not because I am sadist, but because I share the sentiment!

i might have read too many calvin and hobbes whilst growing up.
 
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Oh Christ, look at me ramble, don't look at this last post, it's cringy!\!!!!
 
Well - as an absolute non-lyrics guy (I couldn't write them in a million years - tunes? Yes! word, no!) I read your first post and thought - oh no, I'm going to hate this and will be mortally offended - content, language, style, meanings etc etc. I wasn't. I didn't even detect anything in those words to make me think at all. They kind of sound 'normal', but I think you felt we'd perceive them as angry or personal. I really don't. As words go - I'd not even blink seeing them against some melodies in a slow song, or an up-tempo pop song or something rockier - oddly the genre that would never have clicked is punk. How odd I didn't pick up on your intention. Waiting for the finished thing now so I can say I hate it - but so far, I don't! They're in my humble view pretty decent!
 
rob aylestone said:
Well - as an absolute non-lyrics guy (I couldn't write them in a million years - tunes? Yes! word, no!) I read your first post and thought - oh no, I'm going to hate this and will be mortally offended - content, language, style, meanings etc etc. I wasn't. I didn't even detect anything in those words to make me think at all. They kind of sound 'normal', but I think you felt we'd perceive them as angry or personal. I really don't.
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Well thank you! that reassures me. I'm sort of living a paranoid life right now. I've lost all (not really all, i'm still cool, i like to think) self-confidence. At 23! Could you imagine something like that? All the years of personality traits are mangled and confused. Losing sleep over it too...
 
rob aylestone said:
As words go - I'd not even blink seeing them against some melodies in a slow song, or an up-tempo pop song or something rockier - oddly the genre that would never have clicked is punk. How odd I didn't pick up on your intention.
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And oh no! I may have not made it clear. But you described exactly what the music is in that sentence. It really is punk lyrics, but combined with a rather ironic melody (that tries to genuinely be like 60's garage rock. Which, you know what? I would love to think that garage rock sort of is real punk. For example, The Deviants' second album. I would like to think I am very inspired by that album, solely for the guitar tones and stuff.

Basically, I'm also saying that I don't even know what my own music sounds like. I would love it to be like those uncool (i think they were kinda cool actually) american/brit 60's garage rock bands. With a Kevin Ayers approach to it (playing a 2 chord song).

But yeah no you weren't wrong, I should have worded it better. It really is that sort of music that is like a slow song like you say. You kind of described exactly the album without having listened to it. :p
rob aylestone said:
Waiting for the finished thing now so I can say I hate it - but so far, I don't! They're in my humble view pretty decent!
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And I'm seeing the irony... that is simply an awesome thing to say, thank you hahaha. Will post the album on here so it can get bashed!!
 
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The line is forming.. :laughings: ;)


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assman said:
So my question is. should we not talk about stuff that pisses us off about EVERYBODY (not friends in particular, but everybody).
Also, double question, if we didn't have those types of song, wouldn't we be just left with a bitter taste of TOXIC positivity?
Is it too much?
Click to expand...
Well - what you can talk about is different than what's good for your mental well being to talk about.
 
I wrote a song about a girl i had a crush on and she kinda broke my heart , but we were friends and i wasnt in a negative way. her friend said its weird. but idc now just be great full you are important and special enough to be mentione in artwork
 
Eh, I’ve written songs over a breakup before and I don’t think it’s weird. If Taylor Swift can do it, so can I.

I’ve also written about my friends in a song, but it was in a neutral way.
 
Writing about what bothers us is very therapeutic... It helps us to move on. When my wife died, I just opened up a file called, "Lyric" and poured out all my anger and dread and hurt. Reading it still hurts a little, but it helped me to move on in a positive way. I am using some of those lyrics in the two songs I'm writing right now.
I know this is not about me, but this was my experience. What you are going through and what you are writing are what's necessary for your mental health. But bear in mind that people see/hear what they want to. If someone hears your song and says, "That really hits me." It's because they want to have the same healing that you had. If someone says, "That really hurts me." it's because they want to be a victim...
You can control how your lyrics make you feel, but you can't control how they make others feel.
 
grimtraveller said:
I don't name names
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Mind you, my song "Ralph & Louisa" actually mentions a real guy called Ralph and a real woman called Louisa. People think I talk a lot, but these two were in a class of their own. They weren't a couple, even though they are husband and wife in the song. It's doubtful they ever came across each other. I could have used a couple of other people, particularly my old mate Bobby Day, but Ralph could chat and is a better name for a song. There are Bobs everywhere.
The lyric is a comedic look at insensitivity and also loneliness.
 
One of my earliest songs was written about a situation involving me and my roommates - a buddy and his live-in girlfriend. The three of us were renting a house in Virginia. She was pregnant when we moved in, then delivered 8 months later. Her new-mom hormones took hold and she ran off with the baby, leaving my buddy in emotional turmoil and me caught in the middle. Our three cats also suffered. The girlfriend was the sweetest, nicest person you'd ever want to meet, right up until she came home from the hospital after delivery. Then... WHAMO! ... totally opposite.

Well, that's what I was writing about. No names are mentioned, but the situation is lyrically summarized in song. Anyone on 'the outside' would not recognize those involved. I did play it for the subjects and they recognized themselves - actually enjoyed it.

There are no vicious attacks or descriptions. No mud slinging. There were no hard feelings, and it did help me deal with the situation.

=========================================

I Couldn't See It (© 1979)

I couldn't see it, just couldn't see it
You tellin' me you're a one-man woman
After what you did, after what you said
I couldn't believe it, I wish I were dead

No - It doesn't have to be like this
No - It shouldn't have to be like this

You take the kid, I'll keep the cats
With friends like that, I couldn't be a loser
The girl next door, she's such a bore
Try once more, maybe you'll seduce her

No - It shouldn't have to be like this
If only I could have one more kiss - Like THIS!
_________

Lead Break

_________

You turn around you say you're headin' back
Is that a fact, HUH! - tell you what to do with it
Stay away, don't bother me
Reality - think I'm through with it

No - It doesn't have to be like this
No - It shouldn't have to be like this
If only I could have one more kiss
No - not like this
Like THIS!
 
Write what you feel.

Decide on whether you want to present it later.

:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
Thanks everyone for the replies, it's very insightful. It actually helped me revisualize what kind of lyrics/melodies I would like to write for the future. u guys r rly cool on this forum. But yeah it's just a topic that I've been interested in talking about for as long as I can remember, i've never really had a guide on what to write about, so i just write about my feelings and mix it up with weird dada/poetry, which is not always good (i guess i'm trying to make it a point that it's possible to write anything in songs, without it sounding too rationalee. ie: skip spence.)
 
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