Is it normal to push EQ harder on modern rock drum tracks?

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RawDepth

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I am able to get close to the sounds I seek, but I usually end up pushing a few "tight Q" peaks to achieve it. I have pushed up certain spots as far as 12dB or 14dB in order to get the power and fatness that I want in the track.

My drum room is well treated. In fact, it is nearly dead. I've gone through lots of different mics and techniques and have settled on what seems to work. Here is sample drum track. It may sound weird alone, but it sounds good in the overall mix.

Am I the only guy doing this or is it more common than I know?

 
I have always said, you do what you have to do to get the sound that you want to get.

There are NO rules. If you have to push the eq's to get the sound you want, then do it!
 
^^^ +1 on this


I sometimes do the same thing with some tracks (as needed). It works great in some instances, but sometimes not so much.
Mostly depends on the circumstances, like what needs to cut through/stand out, etc...

For example, boosting the kick 15db on a soft jazz track might not fit well in the mood of the track. But in some big rock mix it might do just the trick.

Sounds good to me. I don't think it's bad to up the EQ quite a bit, as long as it's getting you the sound you want. :thumbs up:
 
Of course, you push whatever you need to push to get the sound you want. I know a very well known engineer in NJ who has done literally hundreds of records, many of which you would know if you listened to hardcore or punk from the nineties onwards, that constantly advocates smashing the living shit out of sounds until you get what you're after. Annihilate it he says. He's definitely got no qualms about pushing stuff to the limits but that's only because he knows his gear and he knows how far he can go. He also knows what tools to use for a specific job. However, being conservative is not his forte.

Saying that it's a good idea to try get the sound you're going for from the beginning so less has to be done later. This is my philosophy. I believe the mix starts in tracking so if I have to apply some EQ to get where I want, I'll do it. For rock there is often a need for heavy EQ, such as scooping out the midrange on the close mikes and pushing some attack. However, that can be achieved by using the right microphone. If you want a brighter snare, for instance, use a brighter mike. Simple.

I use heavy compression on drums in conjunction with some pretty heavy EQ, though. Like I said, I'll [generally] pull a lot of midrange out of the close mikes and push a little attack, particularly on the kick and toms. The kick usually requires the most cut and boost to bring out the click bit and to keep the mids at bay. On snare drum I'll usually cut a bit of midrange somewhere or other and if I want it brighter, I'll tend to go for a high shelf with a very wide slope, somewhere around 5K. In stead of EQ, these days I'll usually dupe the snare track and insert an envelope shaper. Then, I'll turn the attack (5m) all the way up and the release all the way down until all I'm left with is the quick initial transient. This usually also requires me to turn down the output to a reasonable level. Then, I'll pull LOTS of mids out of that track so all that I'm left with is the meat and the snap. After that I'll blend it into the original snare to add some crack. Depending on how consistent the drums are, it might also require a little limiting to keep the peaks from spiking too high but it's generally not a problem.

Personally, I like drums to sound powerful, punchy, clear and natural. I like the processing I apply to enhance what is already there and to keep the authenticity up front. However, there are times where I'll mix a sample into the snare and/or kick, especially for the heavy stuff, which can give a nice modern edge to it.

One more thing...bus compression. Next time you're mixing drums, do yourself a favor and omit any track-level compression (i.e. kick and snare) and just insert a quality drum compressor like an 1176 or 160VU emulation on the entire bus. Set the attack around 15ms, and the release fast, at like 50-75ms. the slower the attack setting, the more attack it lets through. You can control the level of the room sound by tweaking the release. NOW SMASH IT. Kill like 6-12dB on the entire kit. If you've got a good room sound (I make mine with impulse reverbs), you should get this very high energy pumping effect where the room breathes in and out that sounds great on rock drums. You'll find that with that technique, if you set the attack and release right, you'll never want to use compression on individual drums again.

My 2c.

Cheers :)
 
i'd say it's more sophomoric to push eq that much.

ideally, your track should not need any eq at all.

in reality, you'll have some buildups in a few places, and you have to be able to recognize them and cut, across the board, at all tracks, to get rid of the buildups.
 
Is it normal to push EQ harder..........
On a more philosophical level, I guess the question is "harder than what?". Whatever amount of EQ'ing you need to do for a particular song is the amount that you feel needs to be done for that song. I'm not sure what to compare that with to determine whether it's "pushing harder" or not.
 
Gonzo-x: This assumes you are looking for a natural sound out of what you are recording. In certain genres, that isn't the desired sound.

Naturally, if you are using very narrow bandwidth on the EQ, you will have to push way up or down on the gain to notice a difference. If you were using wider bandwidth, it wouldn't take so much gain to make a difference.

However my standard metal kick drum, for example, will be 4 to 10db of 50hz shelf, -12db of 800 or 900hz, 10db of 8k high shelf. This is just kind of a starting point for a really wet sounding kick. Obviously, if this doesn't work in the mix or I need something more natural sounding, I don't do this. But some people would think this was some extreme EQ...

Do what you have to in order to get it done. The only time to worry if you are EQing too much is if you are going for a really natural, organic sound. It normally isn't that hard to make things sound like they sound.
 
It might be worth mentioning a rule of thumb' (simply a generalization) that as sonic density goes up the more carving/shaping might be needed. Whether that be eq, at the source, arrangement'
 
My drum room is well treated. In fact, it is nearly dead.

Not too dead I hope, 90% of the drum sound comes from the room, if the room sounds a bit dead set up the kit on a hard wood surface or cover some of the treatment with a thin ply to liven it up a little. With a bit of reflection the drums will breath a bit. Having said that, yes eq if necessary mostly on kick and snare with some cut on the hats and low shelf on the overheads, and a bit of tom attack. The trick is to get the sound as good as you can when tracking with good micing and drum tuning / playing, so you don't need to eq as much when mixing.

Cheers
Alan.
 
I can't tell you about eqing a set or what buss compression to do. But I can tell you that your clip sounded good. The only notable was the high tom was a bit too much.

peace,
 
i'd say it's more sophomoric to push eq that much.

ideally, your track should not need any eq at all.

in reality, you'll have some buildups in a few places, and you have to be able to recognize them and cut, across the board, at all tracks, to get rid of the buildups.

I'm not so sure it's sophomoric. Maybe, if you don't know WHY you're doing it. Saying that, I rarely push more than 6dB on boosts these days unless I'm going for an effect and I find myself cutting way more dB's than when I boost, too. In other words, I cut heavier than I boost.

As always, though, nothing is a blanket process and every scenario is different.

We ARE talking about heavy drums here, however.

Cheers :)
 
I agree with most here. I've "heard" not to boost more than +5db, etc." but some tracks need it. Once in a while I'll get a song mixed very poorly (the client can't fix the mix) and a +15db bass boost in mastering gets it to sound decent. All that matters is how it sounds. Does the big boost sound good?
 
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