Is it imperative to use a shockmount?.... Harvey?... Anyone?

[Buck62]

I have a question for some of you experienced pro's.

Just how important is it to use a shockmount when recording with condenser mics?
Say, I have a singer who is careful not to bump the mic stand.
Is that good enough?
Same thing with acoustic guitar... no bumping involved.

I do have a shockmount, but I'm considering returning it, since I've never used it.

Could someone explain why I "should" use a shockmount?
What are the pro's and cons?
Does it affect the vocals if I don't use one?

I know this could have been posted under "Recording Techniques", but most of you "mic experts" seem to hang around here more often.

Thanx...
Buck

 

[CyanJaguar]

actually, you don't need a shockmount. I didn't for vocals anyhow.

But they look so beautiful. I don''t think I would buy a mic without the shockmount. without it, the mics look so blah

 

[TaxMan88]

Tube Shockmount!

I have a tube shockmount that plugs into my tube preamp so that when the tube mic stand is bumped my tube preamp automatically mutes the signal coming from the tube shockmount. Of course, I run tube mic cable from my tube shockmount to my tube preamp.

Coupled with my tube microphone, this all comes together to make a very WARM sound.

--Tax

 

[Emeric]

I say if you have a shockmount, use it. I don't, if you want to get rid of it, mail it off to me. Lots of low freq rumble around here, trucks etc.

 

[Buck62]

Actually, it's a nice set-up with the attached pop-filter and all.
The thing is, it cost over $100 and I don't use it.
That's money that could be spent on something else.
If someone could give me a good reason or two to keep it, then I will.

Reasons?

 

[Saih Pitu]

shockmount use

Well shockmounts are useful for when you bump into the mic stand, but their main purpose is to prevent low fequency vibrations being transmitted to the mic through the mic stand.

Think of your floor as a big drum head and the mic stand as a stylus. If someone in your house (or a neighbor if you live in an apartment) were to slam a door, the vibration from that door slam could be transmitted to your mic from the floor being vibrated by the energy of the door slam, which in turn is picked up through the mic stand. But since you have a shockmount your mic is isolated from the stand so it shouldn't pick up the vibration (unless it was so loud you could actually hear it but thats a different problem).

 

[MrZekeMan]

I'm pretty much a newbie to recording, but here is my opinion anyway.

What I've come to learn in a short time is the importance of low noise in your tracking.

People spend high $$$$$$ for quiet mics and mic pres. They spend lotsa $$$$$$$ sound proofing studios.

These condensor mics are so sensitive that I am amazed at how they pick up every little nuance of a sound. Basically if you hear it they pick it up. And, I suspect they pick up sounds that we don't hear.

A shock mount is very benficial for damping sound vibrations that travel through the mic stand and cable. Even moving around or shifting your weight can transmit vibration to the mic.

A shock mount is a pretty inexpensive way to get a quieter signal on the tape/hard disk.

I'll always use one if it's available. It's a relatively inexpensive way to reduce noise.

Zeke

 

[Buck62]

Okay, but my studio is in my basement and the floor is solid concrete with carpeting over it..... hence, there is no worry of vibration travelling through mic stand via the floor.
Also, I do all my mic'd tracks in a well-insulated vocal booth, so outside noise and vibrations aren't really a factor either.

I guess the thing I was wondering the most is how it affects the vocal tracks when you have a loud "screamer" in the booth.
How about recording a sax?
Would a shockmount be helpful in those types of situations?

 

[MrZekeMan]

Okay, but my studio is in my basement and the floor is solid concrete with carpeting over it..... hence, there is no worry of vibration travelling through mic stand via the floor.
Also, I do all my mic'd tracks in a well-insulated vocal booth, so outside noise and vibrations aren't really a factor either.

Sounds like you have a nice set up Buck. I guess concrete is better than a wood floor. But keep in mind that vibrations can carry through solid material too. I'm sure the carpeting is a big plus though. I personally would err on the side of caution and use a shock mount. Although it does sound like you may have minimized the impact of vibrations.

Someone else possibly can address the issue about loud vocals or Sax. I don't know if sound vibrations are transmitted through the mic stand, or if it's bad if they are.

Zeke

 

[mixmkr]

Buck...for your instances, I would say a shockmount does not add any to your audio quality. Think of it as a "trickle down" advertising gimmick that will sell cool looking mics (that are now affordable, btw) to the home consumer market. Hey...you can have a mic that looks like a big boy studio mic!! Consider the source....a shock mount in past days,(as today also) was(is) usually seen in VERY expensive acoustically treated rooms, with floating floors, decoupled walls, with expensive mics hanging in them. EVERY measure was taken to prevent unwanted noises in these situations, and money was generally not the issue...just do the best you can....Kinda like the Americas Cup in sailing.

However, if your "cool looking" setup in your "tastefully" decorated home studio evokes a vocal track from the singer because they think they are recording "big time" and giving it all they got, then $100 is very little spent as compared to a costly piece of equipment.....cause it is the performance...not the equipment....right??

I have a couple of shockmounts because it helps the "wow factor" in my little studio, and I do actually believe that indirectly, it helps in unseen ways....not to mention, they came with the mic, anyway. ;-D

oh...and the pop filters...ya gotta have em...they are money well spent for vocals, imo. Loing ago, I got tired of "mic'ing" forheads and having singers sing off the the side of the mic to prevent the normal vocal problems with microphones.

 

[Saih Pitu]

Okay, but my studio is in my basement and the floor is solid concrete with carpeting over it..... hence, there is no worry of vibration travelling through mic stand via the floor.

Sorry, you don't quite get off the hook that easily.

Concrete can still transmit vibrations to the mic stand, even in a basement setup. Unless you have a floating floor, meaning a floor that does not have any walls directly connected to the floor.

You're probably saying to yourself, of course I have walls connected to the floor how can I not? Well, the way most studios do it is when building the room they put something between the walls and the floor, something like strips of rubber to keep the vibrations from going between the two.

Here's an example of what can happen even with the best of planning, perhaps a little bit extreme but it illustrates my point:

A friend of mine use to design and build recording studios. One studio he built was in an industrial park (and I mean industrial!). They built the studio from the ground up including a new foundation with floating floors and everything. Everything seemed fine until they went to tune the room where they discovered they were picking up low frequency vibrations from somewhere outside the building. Well after a few weeks of literally digging around they found out that underneath the new concrete foundation was an old larger foundation which went all the way out to the street, where it was picking up vibrations from a cement making plant down the street 1/4 of a mile!

 

[MrZekeMan]

Think of it as a "trickle down" advertising gimmick that will sell cool looking mics (that are now affordable, btw) to the home consumer market.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this mixmkr. I don't believe shock mounts to be an "advertising gimmick". I think they are beneficial.

If anything, they are even more beneficial for the home recordist. Because we generally don't have the floating floors and acoustic treatments that the big boys have.

If the big studio's having all these treatments still find it beneficial to apply shock mount dampening, how much more so will it help us.

Zeke

 

[hixmix]

Women love it when I use the "shockmount". When I use the "tube shockmount" they lose it altogether. Once they've experienced that, it becomes imperative.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Any mass on an arm is free to vibrate. A mic on a boom arm, or even on a straight mic stand will resonate if hit with the right note. The stand/mic length/mass is a tuning fork - in other words, it bongs!! To prevent the "bong" from messing up your recording, you use a shock mount.

The other reason is that in studios, we often try different mic placements by moving live mics around. It saves watching your woofers come out of the gap as you move the stands around.

 

[mixmkr]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this mixmkr. I don't believe shock mounts to be an "advertising gimmick". I think they are beneficial.

If anything, they are even more beneficial for the home recordist. Because we generally don't have the floating floors and acoustic treatments that the big boys have.

If the big studio's having all these treatments still find it beneficial to apply shock mount dampening, how much more so will it help us.

Zeke

sure they are an advertising gimmick...and you're kidding yourself if you think not. And I certainly understand MOST people do not have decoupled surfaces in their home studio....BUT, most people have air cond noise, refrigerator noise, CPU noise, barking dogs, TV sound, kids playing, monitor leakage, poor tracking isolation, and the list goes on....not to mention lousy mics and just plain inexperience with what they are doing. These noises GENERALLY (and I would bet in Bucky62's situation...in which I was replying to) are far worse than some industrial cement mixing facility 1/4 mile away, and somehow getting on to "home based" recordings. I can understand striving for the best, and YES, a shockmount, even if it is the cheezy $25 Marshall mount on their cheezy $150 mic, will help....BUT these other factors I listed are FAR more dominant in MOST (re-just about all) home situations. It is like the guy who buys his albums (the vinyl ones) and puts them on casette to *preserve* the quality, (or the guy who records at 16 bit and mixes to a 24 bit medium)...ha!!). Fix the big problems first, then proceed to the smaller issues.... In other words, don't spend 90% of your budget on acoustical treatments, to only have it "flawed" by a crappy $30 hollow core door with a 1/2" gap under it for your control room door. Also, I am not dismissing the fact that unwanted transmitted sounds can add up over 20 or more tracks either. But I have seen, and participated in many large budget recording sessions at large budget studios, and the fact that the window was open in the tracking room, never presented a problem on MOST of the recorded tracks....
And.....I bet 50% of the people that buy the MXL2001 and its shockmount buy it because of its cost AND looks. Like I mentioned...a little "wow" factor can go a long way. (not to mention some succesful marketing)....and for an extra 25 bucks...why not (sure it can help, I agree, but that's not the reason Marshall is offering it on their budget mic)

By the way....have you had trouble with street rumble when mic'ing your 9' Bosendorfer, during the quiet passages, to only say: "damn...we'll have to retrack it...to much background cement mixing plant noise transmitting thru the mic stand." ?? Ah...don't worry...my Tascam casette 8 tracker will cover it up with the intenal machine noise!!! ha!!

 

[xtremedb]

I would recommend you use the shockmount. There are a number of good posts earlier in this thread explaining how acoustics travel through solids. In other words, the way you can hear a train coming three miles away on the tracks. The severity of this condition depends on the "Q" of the material. That is an engineering and physics variable for density.

In addition to studio design, the Q variable is used in constructing speaker enclosures and several other engineering applications.

If that shockmount saves a great track that you would have otherwise had to trash, then I think it's easily worth the money.

I have also learned that "expert" advice is not always the best advice for someone on a limited budget.

If you return the shockmount, be sure to place your mic stand on a blanket. This will keep vibrations to a minimal.

Good luck!

 

[mixmkr]

I have also learned that "expert" advice is not always the best advice for someone on a limited budget.

I agree...I would rather go with intelligent, informed advice rather than "expert" advice.

I have seen many "expert" guitar players [of possibly 20+ yrs??] jamming away in a Mars store to "Stairway to Heaven" or the intro to "Purple Haze." ...and they still suck because they have no finesse and only try to impress the 14 yr old kid, the next amp over.

 

[Saih Pitu]

most people have air cond noise, refrigerator noise, CPU noise, barking dogs, TV sound, kids playing, monitor leakage, poor tracking isolation, and the list goes on....not to mention lousy mics and just plain inexperience with what they are doing.

Yes I would agree, if you have all of the above problems then to use or not to use a shockmount would probably be the least of your worries.

These noises GENERALLY (and I would bet in Bucky62's situation...in which I was replying to) are far worse than some industrial cement mixing facility 1/4 mile away, and somehow getting on to "home based" recordings.

I did say it was a somewhat extreme example, my point was even the best studios could have such problems which was one reason why shockmounts were made.

By the way....have you had trouble with street rumble when mic'ing your 9' Bosendorfer, during the quiet passages, to only say: "damn...we'll have to retrack it...to much background cement mixing plant noise transmitting thru the mic stand." ?? Ah...don't worry...my Tascam casette 8 tracker will cover it up with the intenal machine noise!!! ha!!

That studio was not mine, I don't have a 9" Bosendorfer or a Tascam 8 track cassette recorder, but I have had to retrack in my home studio because of street noise generated by car traffic.

Look, their are no rules saying you have to use a shockmount. You don't have to use a pop filter or a foam screen either but they do come in handy sometimes. Bottom line, if you think that the 100 bucks you spent on that shockmount could be put to better use elsewhere then by all means take it back. A lot of great recordings have been made with them, a lot of great recordings have been made without them.

 

[mixmkr]

Look, their are no rules saying you have to use a shockmount. You don't have to use a pop filter or a foam screen either but they do come in handy sometimes. Bottom line, if you think that the 100 bucks you spent on that shockmount could be put to better use elsewhere then by all means take it back. A lot of great recordings have been made with them, a lot of great recordings have been made without them.

You're 200% right on the money. Sorry about the 9 inch Bosendorfer, though....!

Seriously....I think we are on the same page, however....G'day!!
(except all hold fast to my Marshall marketing ploy ;-D )

 

[darrin_h2000]

Does anyone hang thiers from the cord?

I ve been hanging my overheads by the cord from the cieling and I havent had a noise problem yet. and I spent less than what a shockmount would have cost.